Awwwww Ref - Know The Laws

FYI -  Cap Football ref's have been asked by Cap Football to clamp down on foul language. There's obviously going to be a bit of variance in how "clamping down" is interpreted by different referees though.

Imagine how pathetic you would have to be to book someone for giving their own team a gee up.

In yesterday's Birkenhead v Central game... Central were hot on attack and looking dangerous. A ball trickled onto the field back near half way from the game being played on the field next door, so a canny Birko player hoofed it towards the Birko goal. Officials didn't appear to see where it came from, probably assumed it had come straight from the other field and stopped play given there were two balls on the pitch.

Question: What woud have happenned if one of the officials had spotted what actually happenned? What would the penalty have been for the Birko player, if any?

Goal kick, Yellow card for lack of respect for the game (Y10) - maybe a little harsh unless he'd been warned about language before.

Why would a ref ever stick around afterwards? not a lack of respect and it's not a popularity contest - just common-sense!

fixed

disagree completely - if someone is giving him shark after the game, sure - but if people just want to thank him for the game and shake his hand and he takes off - total lack of respect and understanding of the game

Anyone got any thoughts on the quality of lower grade CF referees? Had a couple of howlers in Cap 3, 5 and definitely in U17 grade. It leaves me questioning the quality of education as the majority are entry level.

Thing is the referees normally doing those games are people that are learning to referee themselves (They will have passed the level 1 badge). After a while they will start getting the higher level games. They will occasionally have a referee assessor there to give feedback but there is limited numbers of them so they are shared around. Referees have a meeting each fortnight but it isn't compulsory to attend. 

Really its a case of either be thankful you have these referees or you provide your own each week like the lower grades do.

It also should be said, that if you are in Cap 5, that is the seventh Tier of football in Wellington. You should not be expecting this bloke to turn up to ref your games 

It should also be said that you pay for them

True and 99% of the time they are actually "fit for purpose"

Agreed. I'm not here complaining about the referee, I'm more making a point of the quality. Whilst it is nice showing up on the weekend and having a referee take care of the game, it can still hold major issues. Important decisions are made incorrectly, to a stage where some players are financially punished (cards). Card happy referees do not belong in Capital 5 and U17 grades. Playing in the 7th grade and being considered in the "top tier" of local football is a bit of a joke really. I'm not condoning any form of foul behaviour on a football field, I just don't see a purpose in putting an unsupervised referee in a game where they may make an incorrect call but don't believe they have and have no guidance around it. Who said the referee is always right? Ha

Comes down to a supply issue. Maybe if some of the old fudgeers running around thinking they can still play football knocked it on the head and had a go reffing, the quality would improve imeasurably

So much this last bit. Any official ref is better than having a player or random bystander doing it. 

I played lower grades for years then a few cap 5 games and was absolutely stoked at having refs when we did. Such a novelty after years of not having them. I completely hated having to ref social games when it was my turn so massive respect to anyone who chooses to do it, regardless of quality

At the end of the day, even the very best refs in the World get things wrong from time to time. In my experience, if you just accept that and get on with things rather than carrying on at the referee like a knob, is beneficial

Problem is down in those grades you're unlikely to get quality compared to what you would hope in the higher grades. I would suggest if you are feeling like the referee is having a poor game then write in, maybe then if Cap Football hears about it they might try get that referee an assessor at the next game they do so they can get feedback. 

Without feedback the referee can't improve, you would hope they would try and train and make themselves better but some can't afford the extra time to make the meetings etc but can spare a few hours on Saturday.

Really it's a supply thing, without the extra assessors to actually watch the referee games there isn't much that can be done. (I do believe they try get the assessors at the newbie games more often than people that have been doing it for a while)

Also your comment on card happy, maybe players shouldn't make reckless tackles or swear if thy don't want to be fined!

In fees? Because aren't the fees the same in the grades where you don't get refs?

outside of team fees

I would suggest looking at having Cap4 and below not having fines for yellow cards

Ah right, true. Didn't think of that. Maybe that explains why they are card happy ;)

it'd also help if players didn't abuse referees (including social grades). Then there would probably be more of them and the quality would be better. 

I like the idea of refereeing, but then whenever I've done it I get abused, or I watch higher grades and they get abused too.  not sure I could handle that every week (I can barely handle it the once or twice per season I do have to referee my social team). 

How do you propose the ref;s pay for their end of season bash if you take away their fines money ;-)

I'd say the higher grades gets them a week in vegas

Just had a look back through cards received for Upper Hutt first team so far this year. At least half would fall into the dumbarse / unecessary category. Is this consistent in other teams

Always have respected a referee when they are on the field. Can't say I've ever behaved like a 'knob' towards one. As initially stated, I'm just querying if anyone experienced a drop in refereeing quality. Nor have I said anything about encouraging reckless behaviour. Tbh I have had some great upcoming referees in capital 5 which is good to see, I just believe some of them aren't quite ready. You have to start somewhere I suppose. I don't think the writing in option works. e.g. An apposing coach and I wrote in about the performance of a referee being below standard and we were simply told to go away and the referee is always right (may not have been in those exact words) Frustrating as there doesn't seem to be any immediate resolution and that referee has continued to referee at the same level (u17)

Don't get me wrong, I know referees aren't perfect and some are better than others. Just seen this question before and really there isn't any answer to it apart from more investment and training but I just don't see that happening unless we got to crisis levels with lack of numbers or lots of complaints about the standard.

agreed - I'd take an official ref over a team provided one every time, irrespective of the quality. team provided refs is the bane of social football but a fact of life. the anger (directed towards the ref initially and then the players) I've seen from some teams / players is ludicrous and I think it often comes from a starting mindset of 'we are going to get screwed today'. I've had a game where the first time our ref blew the whistle for an innocuous call in the middle of the pitch, a couple of dudes in the other team got in his face and launched abuse - was pretty disgraceful.

anyway with an official ref even if they are sharke, you don't have to bother responding to this stuff and can just get on with the game

Played a  game the other day, where we got fouled all the time, and the home ref just let it go.  

For all the holier than thou types who pretend they won't retaliate, I would suggest try being on the receiving end and shrugging it off.

On the initial point - it didn't help me that the Level One course I did was full of parents of JPL kids who had put their hand up to ref without knowing the Laws of the Game at all. Meant we spent lots of time in the course discussing things like whether a handball needs to be intentional or not (spoiler alert: it does) rather than the man management stuff that I would have found much more useful.

I had to learn on the job, so to speak, about how to manage different game situations without simply pulling out the yellow card. Simple shark like having a quiet talk with a player, next by a big "no more" with hand action, and then if they keep doing it, a yellow card. 

This isn't a fault of the course, there were about 20 parents at the course and only two of us intending to become referee for the senior leagues so it makes sense that it was targeted at them. Perhaps extra online resources would be the way to go, teaching the things about referee that aren't just the 17 Laws?

Player management is a big thing and learning to do it without using cards I can't see any other way than the referee getting actual game time. Would hope that with the referees first couple of games they would have an assessor or mentor there to watch and give advice. Been a few years since I started out so don't know if that is the case.

Seems like every game we’ve played this season has turned into non-stop arguments and abuse at the ref. Noone at this level (Cap 8) is a qualified ref, they are just doing it because it’s their turn. You can’t always see everything, offsides are difficult to call without linesmen and people tend to try and let the game flow as much as possible to avoid arguments for giving their own team a free kick. But whatever you do you just get sworn at and called a cod etc. Noone wants to do it and everyone tries to switch with someone else as soon as possible.

Don’t remember it being like this last year in the same division but some of the teams new to the division this year have been really aggressive and unpleasant to play against. I’m lucky in that being a full time keeper I don’t tend to get subbed so have never had to referee and can keep out of the arguments too since I don’t tend to be involved in the tackles.

Funny, I've found it's always the other team too.

I played one game for a social team once and didn't go back partly because one of the guys on the team was a total cock to the ref the whole game. I even told him to calm down because it wasn't a real ref and he said he was "Just having a laugh"

What a strange thing to say in my opinion !

You would be amazed at the shark that gets passed off as "just banter"

Usually by players who would never even consider becoming a referee because they "couldn't handle the abuse"! 

IFAB have just made some changes to the laws. The link is here IFAB law amendments.

just to add something the above about discipline. I know of a guy who has been sent off, Masters level, two weeks running and will be playing again this weekend. His team mates keep making excuses for him as his on-field discipline never gets any better. Therein lies a problem. At what stage should they be saying/have said enough?

If not his team, then his club?

Indeed. There seems to be a lot of looking the other way.