I'm over it already "significant racial slur"...no ones being transparent or upfront about it. Fifa will brush it.
Whens our next game?
If it was the N word then "NO"
I'm guessing it probably wasnt the "n" word, highly unlikely that a person of african decent is gonna throw that insult at anyone. I'd expect it would be more targetted to a pacific islander to cause such offense - ie "coconut".
Thought that Crocombe was good in goal. Made some great saves. Glad to see him get a start. We played with good intent and deserved the goal that we got. Still a few nervous moments at the back, passing into traffic in front of our own goal a few times to many. Shades of the Sweden game. I liked the line up. Looking pretty solid generally. Except our young strikers who are pretty raw and are really going to need to step up over the next few years, we need back up for Wood who might not always be there. So hope Waine can get good game time at Plymouth, I think he has the highest ceiling of our young strikers but will he get game time in the championship. And be good to see Mata get a move to League one or two in Eng. Rogerson and De Jong to kick on at there clubs.
I wonder if John Terry could lip read what he said. he was very good towards Anton Ferdinand a few years back - when he wasn't banging Wayne Bridges partner.
I'm over it already "significant racial slur"...no ones being transparent or upfront about it. Fifa will brush it.
Whens our next game?
If it was the N word then "NO"
I'm guessing it probably wasnt the "n" word, highly unlikely that a person of african decent is gonna throw that insult at anyone. I'd expect it would be more targetted to a pacific islander to cause such offense - ie "coconut".
I'd be surprised if his racism was that nuanced, to be honest...
I'm over it already "significant racial slur"...no ones being transparent or upfront about it. Fifa will brush it.
Whens our next game?
If it was the N word then "NO"
I'm guessing it probably wasnt the "n" word, highly unlikely that a person of african decent is gonna throw that insult at anyone. I'd expect it would be more targetted to a pacific islander to cause such offense - ie "coconut".
I'd be surprised if his racism was that nuanced, to be honest...
I'm only going in that direction given boxall's reaction, I wouldnt expect such a reaction if the comment was some poor attempt at an insult.
I'm over it already "significant racial slur"...no ones being transparent or upfront about it. Fifa will brush it.
Whens our next game?
If it was the N word then "NO"
I'm guessing it probably wasnt the "n" word, highly unlikely that a person of african decent is gonna throw that insult at anyone. I'd expect it would be more targetted to a pacific islander to cause such offense - ie "coconut".
Apparently the Qatar assistant coach is of Samoan descent, so he might have learnt some racial slurs in that context.
Just watched the replay. Rojas was brilliant despite the misses, he needs to always be in our starting xi. Crocombe came in and did well. Pijnaker came in and had a shocker. Gotta be Surman or Smith to partner Boxall next time. Would still like to see us trying to play through the middle more, an All Whites CB to CM pass is a collectors item. But at least we are finally starting to play more or our best xi and leaving the awful back 5 behind. Plenty of reasons to be optimistic about what we could do with the likes of Wood, Thomas and Singh added to that squad.
Overall though I don't think that Sweden or that Qatar side were really up to very much. I'd have needed to see a lot more against them to think Darren deserves the job. He has been better than Hay and Hudson but that's a low bar. Fingers crossed that's his last game in charge and we have a shiny new coach in the November window and an opponent better than Sweden B or Qatar to take on.
I'm over it already "significant racial slur"...no ones being transparent or upfront about it. Fifa will brush it.
Whens our next game?
If it was the N word then "NO"
I'm guessing it probably wasnt the "n" word, highly unlikely that a person of african decent is gonna throw that insult at anyone. I'd expect it would be more targetted to a pacific islander to cause such offense - ie "coconut".
Apparently the Qatar assistant coach is of Samoan descent, so he might have learnt some racial slurs in that context.
I'm over it already "significant racial slur"...no ones being transparent or upfront about it. Fifa will brush it.
Whens our next game?
If it was the N word then "NO"
I'm guessing it probably wasnt the "n" word, highly unlikely that a person of african decent is gonna throw that insult at anyone. I'd expect it would be more targetted to a pacific islander to cause such offense - ie "coconut".
Apparently the Qatar assistant coach is of Samoan descent, so he might have learnt some racial slurs in that context.
Tim Cahill is helping Qatar out in some capacity.
Don't know if a man of Cahill's standing and career would spend his time teaching Arab players under his tutelage ways to insult players of his own heritage culture. But I could be wrong.
I guess when it boils down to it, it doesnt really matter what was said - whatever it was, was clearly insulting and upsetting to boxall and his team so it shouldnt have been said and hopefully FIFA review/investigate the situation and come down hard on the offending player.
I'm over it already "significant racial slur"...no ones being transparent or upfront about it. Fifa will brush it.
Whens our next game?
If it was the N word then "NO"
I'm guessing it probably wasnt the "n" word, highly unlikely that a person of african decent is gonna throw that insult at anyone. I'd expect it would be more targetted to a pacific islander to cause such offense - ie "coconut".
Apparently the Qatar assistant coach is of Samoan descent, so he might have learnt some racial slurs in that context.
Trent Sainsbury, Australia center-back is a teammate of Abdurisag at Al-Wakrah, so they might be having a conversation when club training resumes.
The rumour I heard was that the offending word might have been a French word that beings with N and also has two syllables, and has been misheard as something else, but I just can't see where that player might have picked up some French given the clubs he has played at.
Personally I don't think you should not come out for the second half because of one incident. Sure if there have been repeated incidents that the officials are not dealing with, then you have a case for walking off.
On the face of it, this is one incident that the ref says he did not hear. Ref can't take action just because multiple players say they heard it. A ref can't give a handball that he didn't see but multiple players say there was a handball. Best he can do is walk into both dressing rooms at half-time and say to NZ, I didn't hear it but I'll listen out for rest of game, and say to Qatar, they think you said X, I don't want to hear it.
If it was the N word I'll be so disappointed, given that MB is not black and the player who said it was. It'd be as ridiculous as the black lives matter protests/marches were in NZ (and during covid level 4 lockdown to boot!)
I guess Boxall as well has been living in the States (or Nth America) for much of his life where the meaning is not nuanced.
From the video Mata, Stamenic, Boxall and Tuiloma (also Stateside) are clearly incensed and the Qatar players are in no doubt of that.
Clearly something has been said and if there is any linguistic misunderstanding it is then on the Qatar player, captain and coach to talk and express that. The coach’s reaction is frankly BS and shows no responsibility for the behaviour of his player.
I’m not sure what protest or anything in NZ has got to do with it tbh.
I guess Boxall as well has been living in the States (or Nth America) for much of his life where the meaning is not nuanced.
From the video Mata, Stamenic, Boxall and Tuiloma (also Stateside) are clearly incensed and the Qatar players are in no doubt of that.
Clearly something has been said and if there is any linguistic misunderstanding it is then on the Qatar player, captain and coach to talk and express that. The coach’s reaction is frankly BS and shows no responsibility for the behaviour of his player.
I’m not sure what protest or anything in NZ has got to do with it tbh.
Think the Qatar's coach's reaction is BS. Read how the Kuwaitis responded to the Irish claims of a similar racist slur in their U21/22s game.
https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/65955793 "The FAI regrets to announce that today's U21 international against Kuwait has been abandoned after a racist remark was made by a Kuwaiti player towards one of our substitutes," said the FAI's statement.
"The FAI does not tolerate any racism towards any of our players or staff and will be reporting this serious matter to FIFA and UEFA."
The Kuwaiti FA condemned the announcement made by their opponents, and said that the match was actually stopped to 'protect the players from potential injuries' rather than for racial abuse.
"Kuwaiti Football Association confirms that the circulated news is false, and it categorically rejects such accusations, especially considering that the match did not reach completion due to excessive roughness and tension between players," the statement read.
The point is NZ does not have a history or any significant issue with anti-black discrimination, there are very few black people in NZ, and of those most are probably not african-american. I thought it was ridiculous to march about black lives matter in nz, especially during a covid lockdown, if you really care about racism you'd focus on how Maori and Polynesians are and have been treated instead. Likewise, if the n word (edit: from a black player) got the NZ team to stop playing in protest despite having no black players, I'd think they were being ridiculous. martinb
I guess Boxall as well has been living in the States (or Nth America) for much of his life where the meaning is not nuanced.
From the video Mata, Stamenic, Boxall and Tuiloma (also Stateside) are clearly incensed and the Qatar players are in no doubt of that.
Clearly something has been said and if there is any linguistic misunderstanding it is then on the Qatar player, captain and coach to talk and express that. The coach’s reaction is frankly BS and shows no responsibility for the behaviour of his player.
I’m not sure what protest or anything in NZ has got to do with it tbh.
Given the increased awareness around the harm of racism, as well as years of efforts to eradicate it in the game I found the Qatar coaches reaction very poor. While I’m sure he didn’t hear it himself he came across as very dismissive.
As for the game itself, disappointed to see it cancelled but sounds like they made the right call. And from a purely footballing standard it sounds like we are on the right track. A few months ago we were all terrified about the lack of goals and now we have three goals in 2 1/2 games against reasonable opposition. Bring on more fixtures and a new coach.
It didn't even take a decent coach for us to start scoring some goals, just needed us to stop playing a back 5. I hope this stops the galaxy-brain bleating in this forum about how a back 5 isnt actually defensive and I'm glad the penny has finally dropped at NZF after about 15 consecutive years of playing a back 5. Nobody since Ricki had done it effectively.
I guess Boxall as well has been living in the States (or Nth America) for much of his life where the meaning is not nuanced.
From the video Mata, Stamenic, Boxall and Tuiloma (also Stateside) are clearly incensed and the Qatar players are in no doubt of that.
Clearly something has been said and if there is any linguistic misunderstanding it is then on the Qatar player, captain and coach to talk and express that. The coach’s reaction is frankly BS and shows no responsibility for the behaviour of his player.
I’m not sure what protest or anything in NZ has got to do with it tbh.
Think the Qatar's coach's reaction is BS. Read how the Kuwaitis responded to the Irish claims of a similar racist slur in their U21/22s game.
https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/65955793 "The FAI regrets to announce that today's U21 international against Kuwait has been abandoned after a racist remark was made by a Kuwaiti player towards one of our substitutes," said the FAI's statement.
"The FAI does not tolerate any racism towards any of our players or staff and will be reporting this serious matter to FIFA and UEFA."
The Kuwaiti FA condemned the announcement made by their opponents, and said that the match was actually stopped to 'protect the players from potential injuries' rather than for racial abuse.
"Kuwaiti Football Association confirms that the circulated news is false, and it categorically rejects such accusations, especially considering that the match did not reach completion due to excessive roughness and tension between players," the statement read.
That is some royal bullshark right there from Kuwait.
Qatar's coach has controlled a number of middle eastern teams over the years as well as being at Man U. He's not exactly young so likely didn't hear it, but I'd imagine he's heard some shocking things over the years, potentially a LOT worse then this.
The point is NZ does not have a history or any significant issue with anti-black discrimination, there are very few black people in NZ, and of those most are probably not african-american. I thought it was ridiculous to march about black lives matter in nz, especially during a covid lockdown, if you really care about racism you'd focus on how Maori and Polynesians are and have been treated instead. Likewise, if the n word (edit: from a black player) got the NZ team to stop playing in protest despite having no black players, I'd think they were being ridiculous. martinb
I guess Boxall as well has been living in the States (or Nth America) for much of his life where the meaning is not nuanced.
From the video Mata, Stamenic, Boxall and Tuiloma (also Stateside) are clearly incensed and the Qatar players are in no doubt of that.
Clearly something has been said and if there is any linguistic misunderstanding it is then on the Qatar player, captain and coach to talk and express that. The coach’s reaction is frankly BS and shows no responsibility for the behaviour of his player.
I’m not sure what protest or anything in NZ has got to do with it tbh.
Well, quickly reading the reports and the Wikipedia page, at the time it was to emphasise solidarity in response to the George Floyd killings.
Secondly it was about the relationship of the minorities and the police, the justice machinery and institutional racism. For example, what kind of knowledge do you have about the legal aid procedures?
The fact 10,000 came to protest demonstrates their importance to those that protested.
We’ve seen the police compile a photo database of young Maori who had committed no crime and be very evasive in their public response. We’ve seen young kids who weren’t arrested asked to give fingerprints and DNA.
These are areas of lack of trust and clear overreach by police. There are certainly others and room for improvement.
Yes, I'd admire Kiwis marching and protesting regarding the actual discrimination that is rife in NZ, but it seemed to me that most people thought what they were seeing on the internet about stuff happening half the world away was more important and that's why they went to Black Lives Matter marches. If the Black Lives Matter marches were really more about the discrimination suffered by Maori though then good on them. Unfortunately I don't think any solidarity from nz is going to move the needle on how black people are treated in America.
Anyway, clearly a bad example to help explain why I thought a nz walkoff over the n word would be silly. If it was a slur applicable (for want of a better word) to MB then of course I would back the All Whites' decision. I wish NZF would share some more detail here, I think it is counter-productive to be so vague about it.
I'm going against the grain here, but I personally don't think the AWs should have abandoned the match. The ref clearly missed the incident, or at the very least didn't do enough to address it. Finish the game, kick the guy to shreds (one big hit per player...he'll get subbed after 5 minutes!) and then lodge a formal complaint with FIFA.
How is this (as despicable as it was) different from the hundreds of spitting, verbal abuse or violent conduct incidents that have been missed over the years? Should these things happen? Absolutely not! But sadly they still do. Luckily there are avenues available to take the matter further which don't require walking off the pitch.
Great to see we presented a united front, these things are to be praised and will help with the collective growth of the team. On the other hand, playing and ideally getting a result vs a good team would also have done wonders for us.
Finally, I'd really like to know what was said. Let's not forget a lot of people who aren't native English speakers may not know the exact degree of hurt some words may really inflict someone.
My point about Cahill, is that he would probably know what was said by now. Being part Samoan himself, he would know if what was said to Boxall was racially offensive and if it was, then how will he react to it too.
so the insult is with BELL not with BOXALL OR WITH BOTH?Nelfoos
Longer footage of the incident, including the ref giving both captains a talking to and Bell looking visibly pissed. Forgive the additional fan commentary (and thanks to /u/danimber)
HE IS A 10, not a CENTERBACK, could play center midfield too but he is not a man marking fellowmartinb
Stamenic misses out on that goal now huh? Geez I was all for making him a CB a match or two ago and now the consensus is he’s a marauding number 10. Exciting talent.
I'm over it already "significant racial slur"...no ones being transparent or upfront about it. Fifa will brush it.
Whens our next game?
If it was the N word then "NO"
I'm guessing it probably wasnt the "n" word, highly unlikely that a person of african decent is gonna throw that insult at anyone. I'd expect it would be more targetted to a pacific islander to cause such offense - ie "coconut".
could it be sexually orientated or religion? i thought it was Bell who got abused maybe because he is white, BOXALL is a white guy too , listen , sadly racism is gonna get out of football later than sooner, because is part of the dark arts to win matches, to wind up rivals, and get them sent off, chubby , whitey, cuckholded, baldie, fXG , etc , dont think myself footballer are truly racists, yes they use it as streetwise remarks to get adavantages in matches, what if BOXALL broke the guys nose with a blow? James McClean has been the most insulted and received the most racist remarks ever for a footballer and he is a ginger catholic republican from Derry,
ditto this I like Bell as your captain, he is the most southamerican player in NZ team, a really wonderful NZ AND WELLINGTON PHOENIX discovery, he soon will be in LA LIGA, mark my words
I think the fact that Javier used the F word just now demonstrates my point that non native speakers don't always understand the implications of the words they use
yea i will edit, like the term " marica/ maricón" in spanish has a connotation that other languages dont have , in fact there was a rumanian player surnamed MARICA, the words " imbecil or idiot" are cognates ,aka, transparent words, that all spanish english and french natives, can all comprehend when in an insult in a football game
back to topic again , dont think footballers are racists, yes they are a bit scoundrels, and they try to wind up rivals, with those comment, again what if BOXALL hit a fist on the qatari, a red card!! remember materazzi and zidane newzealandpower
I think the fact that Javier used the F word just now demonstrates my point that non native speakers don't always understand the implications of the words they use
The point is NZ does not have a history or any significant issue with anti-black discrimination, there are very few black people in NZ, and of those most are probably not african-american. I thought it was ridiculous to march about black lives matter in nz, especially during a covid lockdown, if you really care about racism you'd focus on how Maori and Polynesians are and have been treated instead. Likewise, if the n word (edit: from a black player) got the NZ team to stop playing in protest despite having no black players, I'd think they were being ridiculous. martinb
I guess Boxall as well has been living in the States (or Nth America) for much of his life where the meaning is not nuanced.
From the video Mata, Stamenic, Boxall and Tuiloma (also Stateside) are clearly incensed and the Qatar players are in no doubt of that.
Clearly something has been said and if there is any linguistic misunderstanding it is then on the Qatar player, captain and coach to talk and express that. The coach’s reaction is frankly BS and shows no responsibility for the behaviour of his player.
I’m not sure what protest or anything in NZ has got to do with it tbh.
No significant history or issue with anti-black racism? Are you serious?
It may not be plastered all over the papers or socials or whatever, but you will struggle to find anyone of African diaspora heritage in this country who has not encountered it at some point - and in many cases, very regularly. Perhaps not as well known as the regular, prominent and systemic issues that indigenous communities here face, but it's there and happening - a lot.
I know it's off topic, but just wanted to ensure this was responded to (am not attacking you or your opinion, just wanted to clarify what is a daily reality for a group of people here in NZ).
so qatar are complaining, ? fifa wont do anything about the match, it was a yellow for the 11 qatari, the ref seemed out of depth there empty stadium, all very amauteur for my liking
The story from NZ is super consistent. Qatar’s response from their coach’s interview to this letter of ‘Na we didn’t, and anyway you did, up yours’ is all over the map. But what is likely to carry more weight with FIFA, considering where Gianni lives?
I mean as a fan I want to see football and Stamenic to get his goal, but the players were the ones who were there and it’s their right and they probably feel responsibility to take a stand. Football for all or for none right?
I get that the point of forums is to talk shark and pretend we’re all experts, but fudge me the level of ignorance about racism in this thread is remarkable. It’s a major issue, directly relevant to NZ and can be perpetrated by anyone. Any argument along the lines of ‘but what about this other terrible thing’ is a ridiculous straw man argument. And anyone who thinks this is unfortunately just part of the game is showing their whole ass. Embarrassing behaviour.
I get that the point of forums is to talk shark and pretend we’re all experts, but fudge me the level of ignorance about racism in this thread is remarkable. It’s a major issue, directly relevant to NZ and can be perpetrated by anyone. Any argument along the lines of ‘but what about this other terrible thing’ is a ridiculous straw man argument. And anyone who thinks this is unfortunately just part of the game is showing their whole ass. Embarrassing behaviour.
Yeah, it's disappointing but not surprising. The excuses being offered are pathetic. There are no grey areas with racism.
Our team from our country took an affirmative stand where most have not in the past. There should be nothing but universal applause for what they did.
Anyone suggesting that they should have 'filed this thing in to a process' has never experienced racism or simply does not care that much about it.
I'm sorry, but if you have not been on the recieiving end of racism, you don't get to give it five minutes of thought and then file it under 'not a big deal'
I'm going against the grain here, but I personally don't think the AWs should have abandoned the match. The ref clearly missed the incident, or at the very least didn't do enough to address it. Finish the game, kick the guy to shreds (one big hit per player...he'll get subbed after 5 minutes!) and then lodge a formal complaint with FIFA.
How is this (as despicable as it was) different from the hundreds of spitting, verbal abuse or violent conduct incidents that have been missed over the years? Should these things happen? Absolutely not! But sadly they still do. Luckily there are avenues available to take the matter further which don't require walking off the pitch.
Great to see we presented a united front, these things are to be praised and will help with the collective growth of the team. On the other hand, playing and ideally getting a result vs a good team would also have done wonders for us.
Finally, I'd really like to know what was said. Let's not forget a lot of people who aren't native English speakers may not know the exact degree of hurt some words may really inflict someone.
Just my two cents...
Have seen this take on social media as well... how the fudge is resorting to violence against said player a better option? If that's deliberate, which you're implying that it is, that's just sinking to their level.
I'm going against the grain here, but I personally don't think the AWs should have abandoned the match. The ref clearly missed the incident, or at the very least didn't do enough to address it. Finish the game, kick the guy to shreds (one big hit per player...he'll get subbed after 5 minutes!) and then lodge a formal complaint with FIFA.
How is this (as despicable as it was) different from the hundreds of spitting, verbal abuse or violent conduct incidents that have been missed over the years? Should these things happen? Absolutely not! But sadly they still do. Luckily there are avenues available to take the matter further which don't require walking off the pitch.
Great to see we presented a united front, these things are to be praised and will help with the collective growth of the team. On the other hand, playing and ideally getting a result vs a good team would also have done wonders for us.
Finally, I'd really like to know what was said. Let's not forget a lot of people who aren't native English speakers may not know the exact degree of hurt some words may really inflict someone.
Just my two cents...
Have seen this take on social media as well... how the fudge is resorting to violence against said player a better option? If that's deliberate, which you're implying that it is, that's just sinking to their level.
Some people do deserve a fudgeing good kicking though.
