Well I’d trust Michael Boxall. It’s a pity the ref and officials have done nothing there.
It may make getting games more difficult, which would be an unfortunate consequence.
I dunno if you’ve ever seen the original Nintendo Punchout, but racism against Pasifica can be fairly wild, especially if people have grown up with an idea about racial hierarchy, which let’s be honest a lot of people do.
want no more snowflakes around in football, there are too many in the crystal generation around the western civilization, on suarez vs evra, it is true in southamerica specially in mostly all white countries like chile argentina paraguay and uruguay and with an important presence of aborigen native people, that N word is even in an affectionate way and it is even said between parents and children with love , of course it is a context, evra is not from URUGUAY NOR ARGENTINA CHILE NOR PARAGUAY, Palito PEREIRA went further and critized evra said he is not a proud .......man as he is Rusty Dunks
MetalLegNZ
Middle East culture don't see colour/race quite the same as Western cultures traditionally do when throwing out racist tropes.
A little like how India has caste systems.
Well, that's the defence in the Suarez/Evra case wasn't it? It doesn't really matter what someone is used to saying at home, because there's a context to be taken into account - and this context is a player took offence at a racially-based remark. The "fact" (and I don't think it is a fact, more of a prevailing opinion) that it's ok in the Middle East (or South America, in Suarez's case) doesn't diminish that someone was offended. Boxall doesn't strike me as a snowflake, so if something got under his skin then it must have been offensive.
Only snow flake here is you mate.
Good contribution.
Thanks, I'll frame this comment and put it up on my wall.
Real men stand up for equality. There would have been a lot of pressure on him and the team to continue and they stood up for what is right. Snowflakes get offended by people who take a stance.
And I support him taking that stance - how did you misread that? Is it a learning difficulty?
Watching Rojas today and Boxall on Friday, it makes me sad that those two did not start in Doha a year a go. I think they might have just altered the result.
Yeah I was thinking this too... was thinking back to the CR match and annoyed at Hay for not playing Rojas then remembered he actually came down sick (possibly Covid, I can't remember) which is why he likely missed out.
We look far better with Rojas in the team (China match he played was the same). I'm not worried about his 2 misses today as he has shown at Victory that he can score goals, he has better composure infront of goal than Kosta and is more likely to set them up too. Cacace and Rojas on the left will work really well for us I think. He's 31 so just young enough he can still be of value for the next WC cycle.
Longer footage of the incident, including the ref giving both captains a talking to and Bell looking visibly pissed. Forgive the additional fan commentary (and thanks to /u/danimber)
Westerners who're familiar only with our own forms of racism might be surprised that "brown" people might be racist against other "brown" people, but racism doesn't actually require a colour difference (eg Jews, Roma people aka "g*psies"). Funnily enough, according to the United States' internal definitions of race, Arabs are "white"!
want no more snowflakes around in football, there are too many in the crystal generation around the western civilization, on suarez vs evra, it is true in southamerica specially in mostly all white countries like chile argentina paraguay and uruguay and with an important presence of aborigen native people, that N word is even in an affectionate way and it is even said between parents and children with love , of course it is a context, evra is not from URUGUAY NOR ARGENTINA CHILE NOR PARAGUAY, Palito PEREIRA went further and critized evra said he is not a proud .......man as he is Rusty Dunks
MetalLegNZ
Middle East culture don't see colour/race quite the same as Western cultures traditionally do when throwing out racist tropes.
A little like how India has caste systems.
Well, that's the defence in the Suarez/Evra case wasn't it? It doesn't really matter what someone is used to saying at home, because there's a context to be taken into account - and this context is a player took offence at a racially-based remark. The "fact" (and I don't think it is a fact, more of a prevailing opinion) that it's ok in the Middle East (or South America, in Suarez's case) doesn't diminish that someone was offended. Boxall doesn't strike me as a snowflake, so if something got under his skin then it must have been offensive.
Only snow flake here is you mate.
Good contribution.
Thanks, I'll frame this comment and put it up on my wall.
Real men stand up for equality. There would have been a lot of pressure on him and the team to continue and they stood up for what is right. Snowflakes get offended by people who take a stance.
And I support him taking that stance - how did you misread that? Is it a learning difficulty?
I assumed "good contribution" was a sarcastic remark it's easy to do in text as there is no context.
Stamenic misses out on that goal now huh? Geez I was all for making him a CB a match or two ago and now the consensus is he’s a marauding number 10. Exciting talent.
Stamenic misses out on that goal now huh? Geez I was all for making him a CB a match or two ago and now the consensus is he’s a marauding number 10. Exciting talent.
I asked the same question to the second almost. Great minds think alike, or something like that...
Reckon we should turn the temperature down a bit guys. It seems like Bell has been a leader here. Expect him to cop a lot of crap from those that notice inside NZ and from the football world at large.
Let’s at least be kind to ourselves. The snowflake comment was a bit triggering, but it has come not from an NZ based fan, but from someone overseas and he seems to be a guy who’s always been happy to listen and understand NZ a bit more.
Hopefully the fallout won’t be too bad, but we might have to stand by our captain so let’s not turn on each other!
The ref was asleep for most of the game so not surprised he missed that even though his ear was one foot away from the No.11 face at the time, as he was spraying the mark.
It will be interesting if the Qatari player admits what he said and apologises or denies it and calls Boxall (and others who clearly heard it) liars.
Their coach has called it an argument between two players, so looks like fat chance there.
Yeh, I was watching a Qatari stream. Had no idae what was going on. Then they interviewed there coach who spoke in english. His take was that strong words were shared between both players but was unsure who said what first, and that there were no witnesses (match officials) then expressed his disappointment and emphasised that it was a friendly match and it would now have to be looked at by Fifa. The ref actually looked pretty close to the action and when Bell was talking to the ref, to me the body language looked like Bell knows the ref heard it all but the ref was trying to blow it off to get the re-start happening. Which would explain the teams wording " No official action was taken so the team have agreed not to come out for the second half of the match. "
I don't condone racism but I'm not sold on a couple of words from 1 individual stopping a football match. But moving forward we don't need to play these nations waste of time
It will be interesting if the Qatari player admits what he said and apologises or denies it and calls Boxall (and others who clearly heard it) liars.
Their coach has called it an argument between two players, so looks like fat chance there.
Yeh, I was watching a Qatari stream. Had no idae what was going on. Then they interviewed there coach who spoke in english. His take was that strong words were shared between both players but was unsure who said what first, and that there were no witnesses (match officials) then expressed his disappointment and emphasised that it was a friendly match and it would now have to be looked at by Fifa. The ref actually looked pretty close to the action and when Bell was talking to the ref, to me the body language looked like Bell knows the ref heard it all but the ref was trying to blow it off to get the re-start happening. Which would explain the teams wording " No official action was taken so the team have agreed not to come out for the second half of the match. "
Where was the ref from?
It's possible that he only speaks broken English so did not understand the remark made.
I look at my circle of friends and family in Blighty and about 70% of them are non Kiwis/Aussies/Brits so don't understand our mannerisms or language fully and view some words we use such as the word "gender", as a massive sight, much like the "c-bomb" to us.
It will be interesting if the Qatari player admits what he said and apologises or denies it and calls Boxall (and others who clearly heard it) liars.
Their coach has called it an argument between two players, so looks like fat chance there.
Yeh, I was watching a Qatari stream. Had no idae what was going on. Then they interviewed there coach who spoke in english. His take was that strong words were shared between both players but was unsure who said what first, and that there were no witnesses (match officials) then expressed his disappointment and emphasised that it was a friendly match and it would now have to be looked at by Fifa. The ref actually looked pretty close to the action and when Bell was talking to the ref, to me the body language looked like Bell knows the ref heard it all but the ref was trying to blow it off to get the re-start happening. Which would explain the teams wording " No official action was taken so the team have agreed not to come out for the second half of the match. "
Where was the ref from?
It's possible that he only speaks broken English so did not understand the remark made.
I look at my circle of friends and family in Blighty and about 70% of them are non Kiwis/Aussies/Brits so don't understand our mannerisms or language fully and view some words we use such as the word "gender", as a massive sight, much like the "c-bomb" to us.
Ref was a local from Austria. He's pretty experienced though according to Wiki including bigger internationals than this.
Watching Rojas today and Boxall on Friday, it makes me sad that those two did not start in Doha a year a go. I think they might have just altered the result.
Yeah I was thinking this too... was thinking back to the CR match and annoyed at Hay for not playing Rojas then remembered he actually came down sick (possibly Covid, I can't remember) which is why he likely missed out.
We look far better with Rojas in the team (China match he played was the same). I'm not worried about his 2 misses today as he has shown at Victory that he can score goals, he has better composure infront of goal than Kosta and is more likely to set them up too. Cacace and Rojas on the left will work really well for us I think. He's 31 so just young enough he can still be of value for the next WC cycle.
I'm the opposite to be honest, I think those two misses encapsulate Rojas in an international shirt; you expect him to do something that he has shown he's capable of doing, yet ultimately never does. Watching those two big chances missed I didn't even really expect him to score. Going back to watch his international goals, they're all fairly unconvincing finishes, nothing like what you see him do for the Victory when he dispatches them.
I think he's the beneficiary of playing against a second-string Qatar side far weaker than the second-string Sweden side. We saw at the World Cup that Qatar are a step off the better teams, and today's XI featured only two guys who started any of their three games at the World Cup (the keeper and striker Almoez Ali). Similar story against China - he played the second game alongside the better European-based players, as opposed to the first game played with A League guys and 10 men, so it's not surprising it was easier to look better alongside better teammates. Against a full-strength Costa Rica in a competitive match I don't really see him being the guy to take the game by the scruff of the neck and change things.
There's a lot of nostalgia around him, and (fairly enough) people think he will replicate what he did for Victory, but after twelve years and almost 50 caps it still feels he's yet to come close. His international career is quite similar to Barbarouses' really; just that Barbarouses is a couple years older and thus further on the decline. I mean, McCowatt now has as many goals against non-OFC teams in his twelve caps as the other two have in their combined 99 caps.
I don't condone racism but I'm not sold on a couple of words from 1 individual stopping a football match. But moving forward we don't need to play these nations waste of time
Looking at the football - it's a shame because that was one of the more entertaining All Whites matches in a while and against a decent opposition, was action at both ends and like our comms said could have been more goals! I was looking forward to the 2nd half!
That said - 100% back the All Whites on this one, nobody should have to deal with racism in their workplace and just carry on as if it didn't happen. Games like these are perfect situations to take a stand as well because nothing on the line (so the opponent doesn't gain anything from us calling the game off).
I take it that MB has said something similar? but yeah talking colleagues around the office today mixed opinions interesting takes from wide range of people. I can see why All Whites did it but maybe could have asked Qatar to take player off before restarting the game and then make a decision whether we default or play on. Just can't believe 1 person spoiled the party....just get the bouncer.
I take it that MB has said something similar? but yeah talking colleagues around the office today mixed opinions interesting takes from wide range of people. I can see why All Whites did it but maybe could have asked Qatar to take player off before restarting the game and then make a decision whether we default or play on. Just can't believe 1 person spoiled the party....just get the bouncer.
The bouncer was standing right there and didn’t do anything. Perhaps a language barrier prevented him from hearing the actual slur, but he didn’t attempt to resolve or confront the situation despite pleas from NZ’s players
That is such a pity, especially given the effort you made. Bright side - you only missed half a game….Marto
Napier Phoenix
Couldn’t you find transport to the new venue?Marto
Is anyone aware of a link for this game etc. anything would be great.
I can’t believe I’m having to watch the match on line when I’m in the centre of Vienna (which is roasting hot right now). So pissed at the last minute venue change.
No, it was too much hassle, one train, two buses and nothing to come back on. Had there been more worning I’d have rented a car but quotes for today were out of this world.
Longer footage of the incident, including the ref giving both captains a talking to and Bell looking visibly pissed. Forgive the additional fan commentary (and thanks to /u/danimber)
I'm no lip reader but it seems pretty clear to me that at around 0:20 Mata is saying "ref! You can't say that ref!", the Qatari 11 repeatedly says to Boxall "you watch your mouth" and the referee says to the 11 (around 1:12) "whatever you said I don't know" and then to Bell (around 1:27) "I don't get the context okay".
I understand the team collectively taking a stand against something that was clearly offensive, but also don't think the referee should be blamed for not doing more if he doesn't know what was said or how it was offensive.
I take it that MB has said something similar? but yeah talking colleagues around the office today mixed opinions interesting takes from wide range of people. I can see why All Whites did it but maybe could have asked Qatar to take player off before restarting the game and then make a decision whether we default or play on. Just can't believe 1 person spoiled the party....just get the bouncer.
It was a soft foul on Bell, as Abdurisag flops down. Boxall steps toward Abdurisag, complaining to the ref. Maybe calls Abdurisag a cheat, then the Qatari responds with his racist remark. The ref was busy with his spray can, and had other players in his ear - so maybe maybe didn't hear what was said.
The AWs only had 15-20 mins in the dressing room to deal with their anger, and work out what they were going to do. Agree with others that you'd hope they asked the Qataris to remove Abdurisag, and then restart the game. But you are dealing with all sorts of emotions plus language barriers. Maybe the last thing they felt like doing was talking to the Qataris. If so fair enough, and make a stand. No player should be racially abused.
Small upside is as someone else said Bell looks more a proper leader after this incident. Which if the Woodsman is going to miss future games, is good news, plus the team should be tighter now. But yeah what a bastard for Stamenic, and maybe Surman who could have been capped near game end.
Edit - be also interesting to know if the AWs camp knew at HT, about the similar incident in Austria a few hours earlier between Irish & Kuwaiti U21 teams. If so that would have influenced their decision making.
It was inevitable that sooner or later our team would face this situation. I wonder what preparation was done. Did they have a range of well thought out options to choose from?
After watching back that longer footage. I want to echo the previous statements about Bell really showing his worth as a leader. Hes still a young man but he carried himself throughout that exchange with a lot of mana and really showed his leadership ability. I appreciate it's a horrible situation for all involved but if there is one positive for us fans is that we got to see our man with the armband show exactly why he has been given that responsibility. I initially thought he might have been a bit young and you still have Wood, Smith, and Boxy around the wider squad but as a fan he has my full backing going unto whatever the future holds for our beloved All Whites.
I also think if there is any good to come out of this as well it will be the strengthening of the bond between our wider squad. They don't get to meet up much but I'm sure this unfortunate experience taught them that they all have each others backs which will be huge thing going forward in regards to self belief and squad unity.
Who knows might have gained some respect from other football associations around the world for how we handled the situation and get offered the chance of some more impressive fixtures down the line?
It's such a shame what happened. And 99% of us know racism has no place in the game. Lots of love and respect to our boys and can't wait until we next get to see them take the field together later in the year hopefully!
Being a friendly in front of no one, involving little ole NZ, I don't see FIFA doing much apart from the hoping the storm will soon die away. Though the fact it happened basically twice on the same day in Austria in 2 separate international games, may see wider ramifications. Perhaps the Irish FA in brotherhood will invite the AWs to Dublin again later this year.
But if this ever happened in a competitive Socceroos game or age group Australia verus an Arab AFC team, it would be huge. There is definitely some West Asian Middle Eastern countries that want Australia out of the AFC. Not sure if there is much ill feeling between the West Asian bloc, and other East Asian countries like Japan, Sth Korea or China - but an AFC split between East & West is always a possibility. That would be a good thing for OFC. Today's incident in it's own little way, will add to that discussion.
Edit - oh in there is very dark irony that a guy from Qatar (Somali born google tells me) racially abuses a half Samoan guy playing for a team called the All Whites, in the country that gave the world the demigod of all racists.
I get the language barrier idea with the ref, but if the racial slur used was the one beginning with "N" I'd suggest it is fairly well known globally, and at least familiar in the vernacular of the population of Europe. Plus FIFA level refs get all manner of training around stuff like this, so while I get the "I didn't hear it" as a possibility, there's no way that I'd buy the "I don't know what it means..."
I mean I'm assuming the insult was in English, as the All Whites understood it (by that I mean if the guy had said something in Arabic I doubt many/any of our guys would have those linguistic skills?). So I'd expect a ref to have a few clues more than what was shown...
If fifa are serious about kicking out racism then they need to be very transparent here and say what the accusation was and specifically what was meant to be said.
I’m not holding my breath but if they don’t then they need to stop all the bull shark advertising they are doing.
I must admit however I can’t imagine it being anything worse then the Australian cricket team which included Michael Clarke telling a tail ender that they were going to fudgeing break his arm, or Chris Cairns batting and the Australian slip field apparently making cho cho noises behind him.
If you were ever going to walk off a field and abandon an international game then that would be a case when you should.
If fifa are serious about kicking out racism then they need to be very transparent here and say what the accusation was and specifically what was meant to be said.
I’m not holding my breath but if they don’t then they need to stop all the bull shark advertising they are doing.
I must admit however I can’t imagine it being anything worse then the Australian cricket team which included Michael Clarke telling a tail ender that they were going to fudgeing break his arm, or Chris Cairns batting and the Australian slip field apparently making cho cho noises behind him.
If you were ever going to walk off a field and abandon an international game then that would be a case when you should.
Never heard that about Chris, that's fudgeing deplorable
