I think the bizarre thing is that it seems there are very few people who pro this decision. Unless you are at NW you must be wondering wtf has happened over the off season for this result to come about. 11 team league? Are they going to scrap results and counting score too?
Capital 1
Yeah you're right. There may not be that many who are vocal about their disapproval of the decision but there's basically no one I've heard of who agrees with it.
It's just that most don't have the time or inclination to go through the rigorous process of doing anything about it. And if Capital Football actually went through a proper consultation process, as you'd expect they should for a decision affecting this many clubs, at a relatively high level, they may have found that out.
Oops sorry tegal I did mean teza, my apologies.
I was asked not to comment on this matter due to all the bullshit that has been flying around from uniformed people and those with an
axe to grind. However I want to set the record straight:
1: I did not know about the decision in regards to the structure of the league before it was confirmed by Capital Football.
2: My confidence (if thats what you want to call it) that we would be in Cap 1 was purely based on my eternal optimism, the original decision of Capital Football and the decision of NZ Football after the appeal that basically said Capital Football have every right to organise their leagues how they want.
Anyone that knows me knows that I am pretty much straight up, so anyone accusing me of being dirty or some sort of collusion with Capital Football please step very carefully as I won’t have my integrity questioned.
I love Football and coaching the game, my hope is that now this is sorted we can all just get on and enjoy the coming season. It is what it is so lets get on with it.
Terry Douglas
Teza, I was in no way trying to mark you personally as "dirty handed", I dont know you or your level of involvement with football, my remarks about NW and CF were as "bodies" so I apologise if you took it this way.
My comment about your confidence was an inclination that to me it sounded like you had received information regarding the outcome but you have stated otherwise and I can only take you on your word and therefore I shall.
My opinion still stands regarding the rest.
I was asked not to comment on this matter due to all the bullshit that has been flying around from uniformed people and those with an
axe to grind. However I want to set the record straight:
1: I did not know about the decision in regards to the structure of the league before it was confirmed by Capital Football.
2: My confidence (if thats what you want to call it) that we would be in Cap 1 was purely based on my eternal optimism, the original decision of Capital Football and the decision of NZ Football after the appeal that basically said Capital Football have every right to organise their leagues how they want.
Anyone that knows me knows that I am pretty much straight up, so anyone accusing me of being dirty or some sort of collusion with Capital Football please step very carefully as I won’t have my integrity questioned.
I love Football and coaching the game, my hope is that now this is sorted we can all just get on and enjoy the coming season. It is what it is so lets get on with it.
Terry Douglas
'It is what it is' should have been what CF said a few months ago.
Who asked you not to comment Tez?
Teza you've weathered the storm in here with great balance and dignity. Kudos.
I was asked not to comment on this matter due to all the bullshit that has been flying around from uniformed people and those with an
axe to grind. However I want to set the record straight:
1: I did not know about the decision in regards to the structure of the league before it was confirmed by Capital Football.
2: My confidence (if thats what you want to call it) that we would be in Cap 1 was purely based on my eternal optimism, the original decision of Capital Football and the decision of NZ Football after the appeal that basically said Capital Football have every right to organise their leagues how they want.
Anyone that knows me knows that I am pretty much straight up, so anyone accusing me of being dirty or some sort of collusion with Capital Football please step very carefully as I won’t have my integrity questioned.
I love Football and coaching the game, my hope is that now this is sorted we can all just get on and enjoy the coming season. It is what it is so lets get on with it.
Terry Douglas
agreed
as i pointed out in a other thread this is purely a Capital Football board decision and NW as per CF board statement said NW did not protest or lobby CF re this matter so please look at CF for all your anger and questions of where this idea came from.
Teza as above is just a straight up worker doing his best with what he is dealt and like's the occasional toastie
Teza, I was in no way trying to mark you personally as "dirty handed", I dont know you or your level of involvement with football, my remarks about NW and CF were as "bodies" so I apologise if you took it this way.
My comment about your confidence was an inclination that to me it sounded like you had received information regarding the outcome but you have stated otherwise and I can only take you on your word and therefore I shall.
My opinion still stands regarding the rest.
Apology accepted.
From the people I have heard talking about it, I would say the "anger" (as you put it Spartacus) is with CF and not at Nth Wellington.
Anyway an extra 4 weeks to enjoy the season.
If my calculations are correct the 11 teams in Cap 1 should be:
BNU 1sts
IBU 2nds
Karori 2nds
KCU 1sts
Marist 1sts
Miramar 3rds
Naenae 1sts
Nth Wgtn 1sts
Vic Uni 2nds
Wainui 1sts
Wgtn Utd 2nds
Looks like a very tough league, could be as tight as last year
Tezza you sure have weathered the storm like a champ on this topic. I too think this decision is wrong though.. Despite other peoples views in here, I don't think there would be too many clubs who wouldn't fight to try and keep their team in the league. There is definitely no way a club would try and relegate themselves to get the outcome that most of us see as right.
How does the league get back to a 10 team league for the following season?
Tezza you sure have weathered the storm like a champ on this topic. I too think this decision is wrong though.. Despite other peoples views in here, I don't think there would be too many clubs who wouldn't fight to try and keep their team in the league. There is definitely no way a club would try and relegate themselves to get the outcome that most of us see as right.
How does the league get back to a 10 team league for the following season?
One of a number of questions that are unclear at this stage.
So CF prescribing without consultation from their Men's steering committee - what is the purpose of this group now ? Majority of Cap 1 and 2 clubs against this outcome = fact as they were surveyed. What happens to player suspensions ? They can be served during a "bye" weekend on the card of a lower grade team ? Capital 2 clubs play less games - should they pay less subs to CF. Capital 1 clubs play more games - should they pay more subs ?
CF have created more questions through this decision. The board says "the fundamental concerns of fairness" as their reason for the league re-structure.
Ask yourself what is fair about imposing this structure on all the remaining teams. Seems it is all to accommodate ONE club.
Man up CF !
Suspensions won't really be affected. You serve the suspension until the team you were playing for when you got carded has played one match. So in case of bye you'd miss two weeks, but one game.
Interesting in the email sent out by Canton that he states:
"NZF Appeal
Some clubs indicated dissatisfaction with the decision, mainly on the basis that:
a. an 11 team Capital 1 (and a 9 team Capital 2) would cause issues for the clubs involved; and/or
b. it was unfair to maintain North Wellington in Capital 1 given North Wellington had itself benefited from appeals during the season.
Two clubs, Waterside Karori and Naenae, appealed CF's decision to NZF, seeking to have it overturned."
whereas the Karori appeal to NZF states:
"It is Waterside Karori’s submission that The First Decision and The Second Decision are outside the regulations, manifestly unjust, and out of step with good governance practices.
For the reasons set out above, we request New Zealand Football direct Capital Football to overturn both decisions."
somewhat different..
You have boards to run the game and they should be allowed to do so in the manner they best see fit. It is ludicrous to expect them to go back to the clubs every time they want to make a decision. What democracy works like that? That's what the Maori party does - you think that's a successful decision making model? If you don't like their decision, either challenge it [like was done in the first place] or vote them out next election.
You have boards to run the game and they should be allowed to do so in the manner they best see fit. It is ludicrous to expect them to go back to the clubs every time they want to make a decision. What democracy works like that? That's what the Maori party does - you think that's a successful decision making model? If you don't like their decision, either challenge it [like was done in the first place] or vote them out next election.
irrelevant wafffle
You have boards to run the game and they should be allowed to do so in the manner they best see fit. It is ludicrous to expect them to go back to the clubs every time they want to make a decision. What democracy works like that? That's what the Maori party does - you think that's a successful decision making model? If you don't like their decision, either challenge it [like was done in the first place] or vote them out next election.
I agree actually - you elect someone to make calls and if they get more wrong than right or enough of the big ones wrong then they are moved on - calling for heads just destabilizes things and makes it harder for calls to be made.
I'm praying for 11 and 9 team leagues this season. For the lols.
Napier Phoenix, then why do they have advisory groups which are supposed to represent all the members of the federation?
Surely the CF mandate is to administer the competitions on behalf of all member clubs. I don't think expecting some (any) consultation is asking too much.
[quote=energy24.7]
Napier Phoenix, then why do they have advisory groups which are supposed to represent all the members of the federation?
Surely the CF mandate is to administer the competitions on behalf of all member clubs. I don't think expecting some (any) consultation is asking too much.
Yes and the clubs in question pay CF $100,s of thousands of dollars collectively....for what ! They not listening and adopting their own agenda. Piss poor.
[quote=energy24.7]
Napier Phoenix, then why do they have advisory groups which are supposed to represent all the members of the federation?
Surely the CF mandate is to administer the competitions on behalf of all member clubs. I don't think expecting some (any) consultation is asking too much.
Yes and the clubs in question pay CF $100,s of thousands of dollars collectively....for what ! They not listening and adopting their own agenda. Piss poor.yeah but your going to be paying money regardless of who is on the board and what kind of job they are doing (good or bad).
I'm not clued up on CF but much the same happens at AFF - they seek advice and sometimes they go with it sometimes they don't - you can't make everyone happy all of the time.
[quote=energy24.7]
Napier Phoenix, then why do they have advisory groups which are supposed to represent all the members of the federation?
Surely the CF mandate is to administer the competitions on behalf of all member clubs. I don't think expecting some (any) consultation is asking too much.
Yes and the clubs in question pay CF $100,s of thousands of dollars collectively....for what ! They not listening and adopting their own agenda. Piss poor.yeah but your going to be paying money regardless of who is on the board and what kind of job they are doing (good or bad).
I'm not clued up on CF but much the same happens at AFF - they seek advice and sometimes they go with it sometimes they don't - you can't make everyone happy all of the time.
or a Board can administer impartially and apply the rules
Pretty much +1 this (governance/consultation with clubs) for mainland too.
Chopah I don't mind if they ignore the clubs opinion/input but at least ask for it seeing as you're supposed to be representing them ALL.
They will say "well there is no scenario where EVERYONE will be happy" but you would at least aim to please the majority, surely?
From the people I have heard talking about it, I would say the "anger" (as you put it Spartacus) is with CF and not at Nth Wellington.
Anyway an extra 4 weeks to enjoy the season.
If my calculations are correct the 11 teams in Cap 1 should be:
BNU 1sts
IBU 2nds
Karori 2nds
KCU 1sts
Marist 1sts
Miramar 3rds
Naenae 1sts
Nth Wgtn 1sts
Vic Uni 2nds
Wainui 1sts
Wgtn Utd 2nds
Looks like a very tough league, could be as tight as last year
tighter i think but at two levels: A top section and a bottom section going on form
i think the 3 teams from Capital Premier will be up near the top to try and get back into capital premier and restore some pride from the drop
there may be some spankings of a couple of teams to get the goal difference up as it might be one team up next year so that one spot might be hard to win on points alone
i do feel for Marist being the unlucky third team from bottom in Capital premier, and with 5 and 7 point clear of the bottom two
it all would of been looking safe and then being dropped into a 11 team league ???????
when they would probably of preferred to stay in Capital premier and play in a 11 team league?
the bottom might be interesting and tight as well with 3 teams possibly going down .
last year the bottom 3 were only a single point apart and the next 4 spots up were only a fraction better
let the games begin…..
Obviously 2 schools of thought, with comments like "irrelevant waffle" I can well see why you wouldn't bother with the opinion of someone like that. Exactly the same with national politics; Government elected with madate to govern, then some people want referenda left right and centre. Note that the only people that bang on about elected officials actually doing what you elect them to do is those against the decision. I don't know Feverish except from what I read on here but he appears to be a petty, envious little man who on his best day is about equal to Vader on his worst (sorry jeff). While he rabbits on about something as petty as this, his club probably needs a new set of nets or some youth coaches to go on a course, but we should let righteous indignation get in the way of common sense.
Um yeah ok pal top contribution.
Without sounding too petty, its a sight more helpful than what you've contributed so far. You haven't addressed the point I raised except with some mindless one liner.
Yep personal insults are very helpful well played big man.
The banter here is about a specific issue involving certain participants, not about how boards can never make incorrect decisions as they were elected. That was my point to you. Maybe try using CF instead of the Maori party for a start and go from there.
Sorry if I am a bit slow, but Cap will have 11 teams, Cap 2 9 teams and all other grades 10?
Sorry if I am a bit slow, but Cap will have 11 teams, Cap 2 9 teams and all other grades 10?
That is the plan, yeah.
Yep personal insults are very helpful well played big man.
The banter here is about a specific issue involving certain participants, not about how boards can never make incorrect decisions as they were elected. That was my point to you. Maybe try using CF instead of the Maori party for a start and go from there.
Given that there will be an imbalance in team numbers between 1 & 2, no one has been stopped from going up to a higher grade as a result of the decision.
If teams are that worried about having a bye, they can organise games against other teams in those weeks if they wish.
My opinion regarding elected organisations right to organise in the manner they best see fit is unchanged [even though you and others have a contrary opinion].
Here's a couple of your contributions to the debate that you've posted, I'll leave others to decide how deep and meaningful they might be:
Just when you though NW couldn't fark off everyone any more..can the board just change things on a whim? seems rather strange
weekly bye where clubs can stack lower teams
That sentence is nonsenseThe realities are that odd team leagues at the top level are shit house. And the fact that everyone is hating on NW in the first place anyway.
If it actually is the board then they all need an uppercut
zero. Maybe a whinge but not an appeal (as they wouldn't have a case)
NZF should appeal it as this is giving them the birdie
Cap 1 shouldn't have to play mid week
The issue here is whether this is a satisfactory decision made by the board. No one has said it is yet.
Obviously 2 schools of thought, with comments like "irrelevant waffle" I can well see why you wouldn't bother with the opinion of someone like that. Exactly the same with national politics; Government elected with madate to govern, then some people want referenda left right and centre. Note that the only people that bang on about elected officials actually doing what you elect them to do is those against the decision. I don't know Feverish except from what I read on here but he appears to be a petty, envious little man who on his best day is about equal to Vader on his worst (sorry jeff). While he rabbits on about something as petty as this, his club probably needs a new set of nets or some youth coaches to go on a course, but we should let righteous indignation get in the way of common sense.
You're missing a lot of key info out in your effort to force the national politics analogy.
Capital Football have an established set of "Advisory Groups" for various areas of the game. If you want to shoehorn them into your analogy, think of them as select committees.
The Advisory Groups take the Board's whack ideas and parse them for sense, impact, implementation issues etc.
The Men's Advisory Group has previously been deeply involved in rule changes impacting the senior men's grades.
In this case however, they have been totally passed by. Which has raised a couple of eyebrows.
You have boards to run the game and they should be allowed to do so in the manner they best see fit. It is ludicrous to expect them to go back to the clubs every time they want to make a decision. What democracy works like that? That's what the Maori party does - you think that's a successful decision making model? If you don't like their decision, either challenge it [like was done in the first place] or vote them out next election.
your comments scares me a little
" they should be allowed to do so in the manner they best see fit"
so they are always right and know whats best so shut up and do as they say?
i think there are a few germans who would see the floor in your plan
"It is ludicrous to expect them to go back to the clubs every time they want to make a decision"
will from my early days of football sorry soccer WSA i recall
The board was there to govern on behalf of the clubs the administration of our competition……
to help them we had these rules and regulations that all the clubs approved to help them do there job to govern in a balanced and fair manner and sorted 99%of issues need to be taken to board level and these rules and regs would be altered at the AGM if needed because things were not working anymore or better solutions were found and suggested.
and if these rules were insufficient to resolve a issue during the season a notice would be posted via nz post in the day and a board meeting date set (no food or powhiri required).
so usually in two weeks any matter would be all settled and clubs were all happy but the minority would possibly be upset cause the numbers were not with them on the final count but thats democracy.
will this is how it used to happen and the clubs could submit to the board meeting ideas and then the board would choose the best option or a mix of options presented.
so why now do we have a closed door policy of decision making following no guidelines from there membership (THE CLUBS) to alter rules or regs and we also now have the internet and many other great time saving machines for fast communications ?
so why can't we be open and democratic like the past where it worked and communications were slow?
your last point is one people should be looking at seriously but you need replacement people willing to stand.
Feverish posted "Capital Football have made a statement saying they are pressing ahead with Reg changes to change the grade structure to 11 teams."
Having not seen the statement, I will take your word for it. However, IMO changing regulations retrospectively after you have made a cock-up is very dangerous business - where does it end if you get away with it this time.
Yep personal insults are very helpful well played big man.
The banter here is about a specific issue involving certain participants, not about how boards can never make incorrect decisions as they were elected. That was my point to you. Maybe try using CF instead of the Maori party for a start and go from there.
Given that there will be an imbalance in team numbers between 1 & 2, no one has been stopped from going up to a higher grade as a result of the decision.
If teams are that worried about having a bye, they can organise games against other teams in those weeks if they wish.
My opinion regarding elected organisations right to organise in the manner they best see fit is unchanged [even though you and others have a contrary opinion].
Here's a couple of your contributions to the debate that you've posted, I'll leave others to decide how deep and meaningful they might be:
Just when you though NW couldn't fark off everyone any more..can the board just change things on a whim? seems rather strange
weekly bye where clubs can stack lower teams
That sentence is nonsenseThe realities are that odd team leagues at the top level are shit house. And the fact that everyone is hating on NW in the first place anyway.
If it actually is the board then they all need an uppercut
zero. Maybe a whinge but not an appeal (as they wouldn't have a case)
NZF should appeal it as this is giving them the birdie
Cap 1 shouldn't have to play mid week
The issue here is whether this is a satisfactory decision made by the board. No one has said it is yet.
When reading this thread - just ignore Feverish and Horsehead. Theyre a couple of Karori old boys with personal vendettas against NW, and theyre just going to keep whinging. No use in arguing with them or trying to prove them wrong. You wont win.
I'm going to finish my involvment in the debate just with this [because I'm not actually fussed either way].
CF have made a decsision that may or may not be a fair one [depending on your point of view].
Advisory groups are just that, but it does make sense to use them if they are in existence. Then again, I don't know what their scope is meant to be, I would of thought it was to deal with strategic issues rather than to deal with day to day decision making
At the end of the day, no one was killed and really, no one is really disaffected.
I haven't thought about it but if Stop Out had qualified for CL, what would that of meant in terms of who went up or went down?
CF in recent years have always sent out the Draft Regs with changes highlighted and asked for comments on the proposed changes (quite a few things are usually picked up on). This year that has not happened.