Canterbury United
No Wild or waterbol?(spelling)
No Wild or waterbol?(spelling)
Hav'nt seen Wild at training so not sure what the deal is with him. Blower is Wortelboer's nickname and a dam site easier to spell.
As an earlier post Keith couldn't get hold of JW not sure if that still stands. I dare say Keith would've been to Henrys and had a chat to his dad to get a location on Jeremy and contact number at least.
Do the Dragons have a warm up game coming up this weekend?
Training at ASB Park at least one night and Tulett Park on the others next week.
Do the Dragons have a warm up game coming up this weekend?
Training at ASB Park at least one night and Tulett Park on the others next week.
Do the Dragons have a warm up game coming up this weekend?
Training at ASB Park at least one night and Tulett Park on the others next week.
Full day of training tomorrow down at the asia-pacific academy with a lot of going over the formation and a few talks on conditioning and nutrition by Ed Baronowoski and the Crusaders nutritionist. Game on the Sunday against the youth team 11.00am k.o. @ Lincoln
Training at ASB Park at least one night and Tulett Park on the others next week.
Nice amounts of money for ACFC & Central United. See below.
Must look up Canterbury United for funding amounts see if we can compete for the poor cousins role.
Top Trillion Trust Grant Recipients 1/8/2009 - 31/7/2010 ($200k +)
$481,640 Auckland City Football Club
$241,777 Central United Football Club
Source: Trillion Trust Grant Listing 1 August 2009 to 31 July 2010
Figures just released by The Trillion Trust show that Auckland City FC continue to lead the way in securing community trust funding. Despite being knocked off the top spot of Trillion Trust grant recipients by Ashburton Trotting Club during the 2010/11 financial year ACFC still received $444,854 in funding from the trust. ACFC's sister club Central United also did well in tough economic conditions. They managed to increase their funding from Trillion Trust to $263,224, up $21,447 from the previous year.
Top Trillion Trust Grant Recipients 1/8/2010 - 31/7/2011
$550,000 Ashburton Trotting Club
$444,854 Auckland City Football Club
$306,743 Kids Can Charitable Trust
$263,224 Central United Football Club
Source: Trillion Trust Grant Listings
Must look up Canterbury United for funding amounts see if we can compete for the poor cousins role.
Top Trillion Trust Grant Recipients 1/8/2009 - 31/7/2010 ($200k +)
$481,640 Auckland City Football Club
$241,777 Central United Football Club
Source: Trillion Trust Grant Listing 1 August 2009 to 31 July 2010
Figures just released by The Trillion Trust show that Auckland City FC continue to lead the way in securing community trust funding. Despite being knocked off the top spot of Trillion Trust grant recipients by Ashburton Trotting Club during the 2010/11 financial year ACFC still received $444,854 in funding from the trust. ACFC's sister club Central United also did well in tough economic conditions. They managed to increase their funding from Trillion Trust to $263,224, up $21,447 from the previous year.
Top Trillion Trust Grant Recipients 1/8/2010 - 31/7/2011
$550,000 Ashburton Trotting Club
$444,854 Auckland City Football Club
$306,743 Kids Can Charitable Trust
$263,224 Central United Football Club
Source: Trillion Trust Grant Listings
Why on earth can a local football club competing in a regional competition get over $250k in funding? I find that nothing short of bizarre. NZF (in my opinion) should really be looking into things like this and making sure no players are being paid (which we know they are) and penalizing the club if so. I'd love to think though that the money is being reinvested into kids and youth football and community benefits, but come on, we know it's not.
I'd like to say something in defence of Central/Auckland City.
I am not a club member and know little of their operations.
But as an outsider, I am consistently impressed by the standard of their facilities, their operations, and their teams. I'd much rather the money was going to them - or other football clubs that know how to operate -- than to trotting clubs or rugby clubs.
Some of you will say, so they should perform, with that sort of money. But the point is, they ARE doing things which are improving the game. When I travel aroud the country, I see too many clubs have not advanced their basic infrastructure from the 1980s. Auckland/central are doing stuff, and at the same time cobbling together very competitive teams.
So, yes, they are extracting a fair wedge. Good on them for learning how to do that, some rugby bodies have been doing so for decade.
It would be nice if more clubs were on the same gravy train, certainly, but then it's the squeaky whell that gets the grease. Auckland/central have done more to lift the game here than just about any club i can think of.
Before a club can do anything, it first needs a vision, and that is certainly what Auckland appears to have.
I was impressed by Auckland City's efforts in running a transtasman preseason game in West auckland. If grant money helped make that possible, excellent. If grant money helpd finance the floodlights at McLeod Rd, excellent.
I have sat in Central's relatviely new grandstand. If grant fuding helped make that possible, excellent. If grant funding goes to players involved in doing community coaching, then I am all for that as well.
So i say good on them, even though it leaves an uneven playing field at times, I certainly hope my club and Waikato FC can learn from them.
To put it into perspective, my own club has probably had over $100,000 of grant funding this year, most of which has been expended on floodlighting 2.5 pitches and a little bit on coaching honoraria.
As to players being paid: that should be something top clubs aspire to do. For instance, if you are collecting, say, $20,000 from match perimter advertising hoardings in a year, there is an obligation to invest in having a product that justified the advertising expenditure. So you need to be prepared to 'invest" in good players who have the ability to attract an audience to make the match advertising worthwhile. Indeed, advertisers would argue you have an obligation to reinvest a percentage of this income in having a marketable product.
Hope this helps.
How anyone can be happy about over a million dollars going to one club and $100k going to their own makes very little sense. Hot Fuzz the movie talks about the "greater good" but how is that possible when the already dodgey money go round of pokie machines ends up like this?
Pretty sure that the league sent out notification last year that this was an amateur competition and no players should be paid. Not sure how blatant disregard of this rule can be continued.
Pretty sure that the league sent out notification last year that this was an amateur competition and no players should be paid. Not sure how blatant disregard of this rule can be continued.
Anyone else go out to Lincoln today to watch the Dragon's play the Academy. I had to leave at first time with the Dragon's leading 3 - nil. Matt Thomas a goal and two to the English import. Clapmam was in the Dragon team but did not start.
Anyone else go out to Lincoln today to watch the Dragon's play the Academy. I had to leave at first time with the Dragon's leading 3 - nil. Matt Thomas a goal and two to the English import. Clapmam was in the Dragon team but did not start.
Heard the final score was 6 - nil. Darren the English import bagged another after the break to claim a hat-trick with Clapham scoring from the spot, unsure who got the other goal. Also missed other penalty (not taken by Claps).
AllWhites822011-10-09 20:27:38
Vim, the fundamental issue is we have to get more money into the game overall in NZ.
If more goes to one club than others, well, that is pretty much the law of uneven development that we see in all walks of life. For instance, you know, there are chaps at my club who earn loads more money than me. :-)
The ideal is to try and get all clubs to the same plateau, not to drag a successful club down to the lowest common denominator. Bashing Central/Auckland won't take the game forward and saying they aren't allowed any more money won't actually put the game any further ahead.
Whether it is an amateur comp or not is also beside the point. We actually need more people working full time in the game. If clubs can work it so that someone playing at elite or semi-elite level can earn a crust from coaching part or full time, then that is fantastic.
We need more of this if the game is to flourish here, not less. Our game would be a lot stronger on many fronts if more clubs were able to do this.
I think you will find that a lot of the money is channelled into community coaching programmes which effectively give some players a niche working "in the game" rather than as payment for playing, even if the package is all tied together.
I think the politics of envy are misplaced in this instance.
The challenge is for us to be as professional as possible, not as amateur as possible.
hope this helps.
Yeah I went out to lincoln watched the first 30 min. Was obviously a pretty easy game as the score line shows. I was a bit concerned at the lack of centre midfield structure as Josh and the other cm would receive / pass and make runs in similar places. No one was "sitting". Danny Attwell played that role pretty well imo last year. Quite often there was no cm in the middle of the park for the backline to bounce it off or the wingers to pass to. Against other similar / better teams could cost us dear.
I think its early days yet to be worrying about the middle of the park. I've only been training with the lads a fortnight and we're still working with Ed on getting that fitness up. In fact this weekend was more about what kind of system Canty intend to play. Was'nt their sunday but I imagine the two in the middle would have been Josh and Mcintyre, both good players and probably a bit more attack minded so maybe thats why they didn't get a good handle on the holding role. Apparently their was a video of the game available to the players so I'm sure Andy and Keith will provide some imput to the lads, exactly what they expect in that role. In addition Myself and Paul Dirou will be available in that role. All going to plan we expect another English import this week in that position too. The information I've heard is that the lad has been playing in the conference and the conference north for Histon fc, so we can assume that the lad will have a lot of experience. If we could tempt Claps back into the fold then it would be interesting. As far as an attacking three go then the likes of georgre, kamo & Thomas will cause most defences problems. On a side note it was interesting to see All White Cole Peverley training on the saturday. I believe he was just down to keep his fitness up but still it would be nice to dream. Poolmister you will be delighted to know that it looks like Wild will play this year but at this stage he is heavily into exams and when you're trying to become a docter they tend to be fairly intense.
The problem with your argument is that it IS an amateur competition. The reason NZF keeps both the NZFC and regional leagues amateur is to make international transfers much easier for players, and to allow players here to fit the criteria for American Universities and European development squads, and clubs here need to respect that. I don't mind coaches (and referees too it should be said) being paid though as it would encourage development in these areas.
My issues (and I didn't bring this up!) are around the dodgey way pokie machine money is dished out, in this case a disproportionate amount to Auckland/Central. (and shirt sponsor too I see) If it went to NZF, then handed out to the NZFC, then that would look better, rather than fund the biggest club. Your analogy about players at your club earning more than you is silly, I'm not talking about a communist society where we all get the same thing (but an idea), my point is that why does one club get 10 x another. Surely it's not just 'luck of the draw' or knowing how to fill in the forms. Pokie machine funding is fraught with corruption and this appears to be another example of it.
The other issue is the payment of players be it through whatever means. If it's a rule, then stick to it. Otherwise don't bother!
The other issue is the payment of players be it through whatever means. If it's a rule, then stick to it. Otherwise don't bother!
Well it was reported in the ACFC thread that one of the Spaniards said he was getting well paid. Its well known that the reason why NZF went and got nosey on it was because Benji Totori was telling everyone what he was getting paid at Waitakere. Funny Benji is not there anymore...
I would rather clubs come out and say 'yeah, we do pay our players and in return they coach 4 hours a week. It might be an expensive per hour job but thats what we do'.
I could respect that than all the 'oh we only pay win bonus' crap.
Cole in talks with Canterbury.
Any money available should be distributed around all the clubs because all we are doing at the moment in the NZFC is providing a bit of match practice for the likes of Waitakare and Auckland as they go off on their Oceania League and possibly world club adventures. I know we all have an even chance of winning the NZFC but realistically the big two, maybe three have a bigger player base, add to that more money then they will always attract big names. This leads to success in oceania and so on. Even when you look at the fixtures this season, theirs gaps of two to three weeks where clubs are not playing games. I can only assume this is so AC and WU can play their Oceania games. So while they continue playing week in week out, other clubs are stop starting. Realistically its in NZFC interests to do all they can for these teams because an entry into the World clubs means a payday for them to. I enjoy playing against these clubs because you know you're pitting yourself against the best in the country and if they do well then it can only be good for NZ. I do feel something could be put in place to make the playing field more level. Such as if teams are in Oceania play these fixtures mid-week or at the end of the season like they used to so teams can get a consistent run of games. Obviously this would need the backing of other countrys in the O league. As for finances put a cap on what a club can use so one club does'nt have an advantage over another. I know these are probably Utopian ideas but would'nt it be nice if we had a league where you didn't know which team was going to win the league before it even started. Finally as a CU player we will be doing everything we can to bring a title back to Canty but we're not stupid enough not to know that the odds are stacked against us.
With the gaps in the league this year why dont the other clubs play each other in friendleys say CU v OU in timaru WU vYHM in either welly or palmy WU V HB in taupo, this will atleast keep the players playing and instead of this stop start to the first half of the season.
As for ACFC/Central getting all the pokie money what has stoped other clubs getting of there arse and looking/asking or begging for money, these guys have found a way of doing things and good luck to them.
The league does "equalise" to a certain extent in the split of prizemoney that Auckland City has earned, this sumer all clubs get $15-17,000 towards employment of a part-time club manager as well, and travel costs are equalised through the entry fee (though the overall cost of the comp is still way too high).
But as for grant funding, to finance a given project a club first needs to have a vision, and then to do its homework as to how it might be achieved, prepare and present its case and sell the idea to funders - and biuld long-term relationships with funders for that matter.
Some clubs are obviously better at this than others. But I don't think it would be helpful to long term ambitions for our game to nobble our most successful.
To a certain extent the national league only makes sense with its current cost structures as long as there is the WCC pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. So in that respect i can understand the patchy draw, though agree with your point that it is less than ideal for the other clubs. It will be interesting to see if this subsidiary competition for the other clubs this summer is of any assistance in practice.
With the gaps in the league this year why dont the other clubs play each other in friendleys say CU v OU in timaru WU vYHM in either welly or palmy WU V HB in taupo, this will atleast keep the players playing and instead of this stop start to the first half of the season.
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As for ACFC/Central getting all the pokie money what has stoped other clubs getting of there arse and looking/asking or begging for money, these guys have found a way of doing things and good luck to them.
I seriously don't think it is an issue of clubs not getting off their arses to apply for funding. There is obviously a strange link between ACFC/Central applying for funds and always receiving. Don't you?
maybe they have somebody on the inside looking out for both clubs, after all they are the same club
it's up to each franchise to put forward a valid enough business case to secure good funding. the trust operators aren't idiots and they want to see that they are getting good bang for their buck, which they are obviously getting at auckland.
don't knock them for doing it right and please don't get all socialist on me asking for equal distribution.
there are always going to be disparities in a developing league. it's up to the other franchises to see what can be done and step up to this level.
this is a good news story people. we have at least two very well run franchises in the nzfc and several others with a lot of potential. auckland are raising the level and proving that with the right people and good organisation, they can raise the necessary funds to head off and get results at the world club cup.
don't knock them for doing it right and please don't get all socialist on me asking for equal distribution.
there are always going to be disparities in a developing league. it's up to the other franchises to see what can be done and step up to this level.
this is a good news story people. we have at least two very well run franchises in the nzfc and several others with a lot of potential. auckland are raising the level and proving that with the right people and good organisation, they can raise the necessary funds to head off and get results at the world club cup.
Cole Peverley has been training with Canterbury United.
I'm not asking for equality, but let me put it to you this way. Central get around $250k in pokie money and I'd put my house on it their players are getting a good wicket for playing in an amateur league. Beloved Halswell get bugger all and nobody except the first team coach gets paid. I'm sure if we were given a $250k handout we'd be winning the MPL and feeding Canterbury quality players too.
Any money available should be distributed around all the clubs because all we are doing at the moment in the NZFC is providing a bit of match practice for the likes of Waitakare and Auckland as they go off on their Oceania League and possibly world club adventures. I know we all have an even chance of winning the NZFC but realistically the big two, maybe three have a bigger player base, add to that more money then they will always attract big names. This leads to success in oceania and so on. Even when you look at the fixtures this season, theirs gaps of two to three weeks where clubs are not playing games. I can only assume this is so AC and WU can play their Oceania games. So while they continue playing week in week out, other clubs are stop starting. Realistically its in NZFC interests to do all they can for these teams because an entry into the World clubs means a payday for them to. I enjoy playing against these clubs because you know you're pitting yourself against the best in the country and if they do well then it can only be good for NZ. I do feel something could be put in place to make the playing field more level. Such as if teams are in Oceania play these fixtures mid-week or at the end of the season like they used to so teams can get a consistent run of games. Obviously this would need the backing of other countrys in the O league. As for�finances put a cap on what a club can use so one club does'nt have an advantage over another. I know these are probably Utopian ideas but would'nt it be nice if we had a league where you didn't know which team was going to win the league before it even started. Finally as a CU player we will be doing everything we can to bring a title back to Canty but we're not stupid enough�not to�know that the odds are stacked against us.
So you will be urging Canterbury Utd to return the CWC cheque on moral grounds then or maybe you could start a communist party and run for Government JordyBean2011-10-12 14:23:30
I love it how whenever someone mentions equality it immediately turns into communism. Such an easy cheapshot and way off mark.
it's up to each franchise to put forward a valid enough business case to secure good funding. the trust operators aren't idiots and they want to see that they are getting good bang for their buck, which they are obviously getting at auckland.
don't knock them for doing it right and please don't get all socialist on me asking for equal distribution.
there are always going to be disparities in a developing league. it's up to the other franchises to see what can be done and step up to this level.
this is a good news story people. we have at least two very well run franchises in the nzfc and several others with a lot of potential. auckland are raising the level and proving that with the right people and good organisation, they can raise the necessary funds to head off and get results at the world club cup.
don't knock them for doing it right and please don't get all socialist on me asking for equal distribution.
there are always going to be disparities in a developing league. it's up to the other franchises to see what can be done and step up to this level.
this is a good news story people. we have at least two very well run franchises in the nzfc and several others with a lot of potential. auckland are raising the level and proving that with the right people and good organisation, they can raise the necessary funds to head off and get results at the world club cup.
Yes and no.
Most of the major leagues in the world have income-sharing arrangements so that the wealthiest clubs don't leave the smaller ones behind and create an uneven competition.
America, bastion of (economic) freedom, leads the way here, with franchise-based income redistribution and player redistribution in the form of a draft system to keep leagues even and fair for the interests of spectators.
And the ASB has income sharing arrangements hence the CWC money
and yes the USA may have drafts etc but that is a pro league which the ASB Premiership is not so that system wouldnt work in NZ
and yes the USA may have drafts etc but that is a pro league which the ASB Premiership is not so that system wouldnt work in NZ
Any money available should be distributed around all the clubs because all we are doing at the moment in the NZFC is providing a bit of match practice for the likes of Waitakare and Auckland as they go off on their Oceania League and possibly world club adventures. I know we all have an even chance of winning the NZFC but realistically the big two, maybe three have a bigger player base, add to that more money then they will always attract big names. This leads to success in oceania and so on. Even when you look at the fixtures this season, theirs gaps of two to three weeks where clubs are not playing games. I can only assume this is so AC and WU can play their Oceania games. So while they continue playing week in week out, other clubs are stop starting. Realistically its in NZFC interests to do all they can for these teams because an entry into the World clubs means a payday for them to. I enjoy playing against these clubs because you know you're pitting yourself against the best in the country and if they do well then it can only be good for NZ. I do feel something could be put in place to make the playing field more level. Such as if teams are in Oceania play these fixtures mid-week or at the end of the season like they used to so teams can get a consistent run of games. Obviously this would need the backing of other countrys in the O league. As for finances put a cap on what a club can use so one club does'nt have an advantage over another. I know these are probably Utopian ideas but would'nt it be nice if we had a league where you didn't know which team was going to win the league before it even started. Finally as a CU player we will be doing everything we can to bring a title back to Canty but we're not stupid enough not to know that the odds are stacked against us.
So you will be urging Canterbury Utd to return the CWC cheque on moral grounds then or maybe you could start a communist party and run for Government
it's up to each franchise to put forward a valid enough business case to secure good funding. the trust operators aren't idiots and they want to see that they are getting good bang for their buck, which they are obviously getting at auckland.
don't knock them for doing it right and please don't get all socialist on me asking for equal distribution.
there are always going to be disparities in a developing league. it's up to the other franchises to see what can be done and step up to this level.
this is a good news story people. we have at least two very well run franchises in the nzfc and several others with a lot of potential. auckland are raising the level and proving that with the right people and good organisation, they can raise the necessary funds to head off and get results at the world club cup.
don't knock them for doing it right and please don't get all socialist on me asking for equal distribution.
there are always going to be disparities in a developing league. it's up to the other franchises to see what can be done and step up to this level.
this is a good news story people. we have at least two very well run franchises in the nzfc and several others with a lot of potential. auckland are raising the level and proving that with the right people and good organisation, they can raise the necessary funds to head off and get results at the world club cup.
Yes and no.
Most of the major leagues in the world have income-sharing arrangements so that the wealthiest clubs don't leave the smaller ones behind and create an uneven competition.
America, bastion of (economic) freedom, leads the way here, with franchise-based income redistribution and player redistribution in the form of a draft system to keep leagues even and fair for the interests of spectators.
hi mate, i agree, but the US is well ahead of the ASB Prem.
besides, we're talking grants, which cannot be passed on. ACFC get theirs on merit. i would anticipate that other franchises would too if they followed a similar approach to ACFC. so the incentive should be to improve. easier said than done of course, but to complain and ask for a share to be handed over is counter produtive and could result in a reduction of acfc grants which is just money lost from the game in my opinion.
of course it's in no one's best interests if auckland end up having no one to play against.
perhaps there needs to be some sort of franchise forum to share this knowledge discuss such maters?
To be fair nobody is whinging about ACFC and what they get. It's obvious the franchises need an extra bit of a hand out with high travel costs (especially ACFC and Waitakere). It does strike as an issue though when Central who only play locally with 'unpaid' players need a $250k grant. The Chatham Cup travel argument doesn't fly either because almost every club in the country deals with this.
And Centrral didn't go as far in the cup. If you argue that its on improvements, then fair play, but then Auckland City should not be able to claim 'it's on improvments' either in theory because Central would have made those improvements.
Or have I got my logic wrong?
Or have I got my logic wrong?
I'm whinging about ACFC/Central getting over a million. Reg22 says they got it on merit. What exactly is the merit compared to any other club-linked-NZFC team in this country?
Value for money because they keep winning because they keep getting dodgy pokie money in a corrupt system??
Riddle me that.
Value for money because they keep winning because they keep getting dodgy pokie money in a corrupt system??
Riddle me that.
i guess my point is that they have their sh1t together enough to get the funding
others are free to do the same
i actually do agree that it creates an unlevel playing field
however, for a league to progress sometimes someone has to drag it up
others are free to do the same
i actually do agree that it creates an unlevel playing field
however, for a league to progress sometimes someone has to drag it up
Dragons have a preseason/training game at ASB Park tomorrow afternoon with a KO about 5pm.
Squad introduced to sponsors etc at Robbies Elmwood on Monday night.
Squad introduced to sponsors etc at Robbies Elmwood on Monday night.
Ok I think we can put this one to bed now reg22, I guess what all us people who are involved with clubs that don't have their sh*t together are saying is that the likes of Auckland are going to continue to succeed whilst they have a budget like they do. You don't have players like Mulligan, Vicilich, the two barca boys etc playing their for a pie and a pint. I also think that most of our clubs have probably tried to get that level of funding and are wondering apart from having a sh*t hot team and a great pitch what exactly are they doing off the pitch that is so different from any other franchise to secure that type of money. Unless the croatian mafia have some compromising pictures of the pokie commision?
yeah, i think it would be good if they could share their knowledge for the good of the game. i'd like to see more franchises in a position to compete for playing resources and facilities. but, i don't think we should begrudge them for what they have been able to achieve in terms of raising cash.
this isn't my crusade, just wanted to keep things on the level
bed time.
this isn't my crusade, just wanted to keep things on the level
bed time.
No worries reg22, always nice to have a wee debate every now and again. Anyway back to next weeks opponents, Manawatu, beaten 6-0 yesterday by TW. Apparently TW's new aussie import is the business, read somewhere that he's won the queensland premier league 3 years on the trot as well as getting the leagues player of the year for the last 3 years. With any luck Ricki will sign him up for the phoenix so we don't have to meet him on november the 27th. Theirs always a chance of that happening since the lads not a kiwi which always seems to influence his decisions
No worries reg22, always nice to have a wee debate every now and again. Anyway back to next weeks opponents, Manawatu, beaten 6-0 yesterday by TW. Apparently TW's new aussie import is the business, read somewhere that he's won the queensland premier league 3 years on the trot as well as getting the leagues player of the year for the last 3 years. With any luck Ricki will sign him up for the phoenix so we don't have to meet him on november the 27th. Theirs always a chance of that happening since the lads not a kiwi which always seems to influence his decisions
But the QSL is below the Brisbane Premier League in terms of standard. Can't see him making the cut at A-League level.
In the ACFC argument, I like seeing Auckland City sign bigger names and splash some cash around. It makes the league on a whole look more professional having some actually decent players in there. I hope one day NZ can bring in another A-League team, and it'd be great if it was Auckland City! Just for the rivalry between them and Wellington!