Things that make you go hmmmm

It is also no coincidence the most unequal countries are Socialist in Nature.   That's Socialism for you.

Whatever, the world doesn't work without compromise and a pragmatist view.

The funny thing is that I can admit where the practical realities of dealing with a situation differ from how I'd like to the world to be. Admitting to that and knowing that leads to much more coherent and consistent arguments than most of what I see.

This seems to be quite a heated debate. Just a reminder to keep it about the issue you’re discussing rather than the person you’re discussing it with. 

or in this case, play with both balls not the men.

78 year old Pensioner charged with Murder in the UK after stabbing an intruder in his own home

Surely you are not  surprised?   Oops, this could get deleted.

Good riddance to that piece of crap....His whole family are scum & have previously preyed on the elderly. 

No further action to be taken against the 78yr old Pensioner.

You created an off-topic sub forum and you have to live with that unless you remove it. If you remove it you are lessening the YF forums as a whole. The whole debate with KH was ugly but necessary and I thought, compared to social media these days, quite balanced and well managed. 

This is an issue that a fair few forums have to deal with.The Modding until you stepped in hasn't been the best. Tegal has shown himself  to be very capable, other mods not so. He needs some back up from the likes of yourself or put a few other people in place who can be balanced and take the sting out of things.

Mods should not be scared to act but to do so means they have to restrict their postings and their personal views and relationships. They have to be the Ref after all. The trouble with us is that we all know each other. 

Also use pm if you want to kick the crap out of each other. 

We have all had times where we have needed a reminder to wind our heads in (Me especially). You are spot on Fortean. I had a classic example myself some years back as a Moderator on the Official QPR Club run Message board. The thread was entitled the "Great Brawl of China" after a friendly between the club and the Chinese national team turned farcical. Fortunately I was on days off and spent 22 hours (12 with my UK based off sider) deleting and banning (3 day bans)anyone and everyone whom made some sort of racial slur or encouraged some sort of act of violence to calm things down. Edit: Here's the news report on my example.

PS: Found it....

This site is quite tolerant for the diverse numbers of people using it. We can all say things in the heat of the moment.

I disagree. 

I never knew Vinnie Lia played for China? 

THIS!!

The talk of Scandinavia as an example is very interesting given recent events in Sweden, which is largely going the same way as Germany, if not worse, after also taking an unwisely large number of immigrants and refugees in very quickly. Taking a very large number in a short space of time seems to be problematic. 

On quotas, lets think about how it would work in a practical sense. 

A common one spoken about lately is old white men on boards. So lets set a quota then. 

The argument is too many old white men, so the quota has to limit them. We can't define just by white though, that's not a race. How do we set the bar? What if someone is one quarter Maori but their skin is white? Do we have to agree a fraction that is allowed, and then prove our ancestral make-up on a case-by-case basis? What countries qualify as white? As you travel around the Mediterranean, or up the Americas, where does the skin colour officially cross from white to non-white? Plus places that have had white people settle on them later, like here, SA, Australia, USA, Canada, do you have to check the family history and see if they are from the "white" countries? 

That's getting a bit tough to do.

So do we reverse the formula? Make it X amount of females? But then what about Old White females? Young White females? We've got the same issue with race, we have to split everything into sub-categories, and we haven't even started on gender. If we're limiting males by setting a quota for females then it's only truly equal if we bring transgender people into the mix. Doing it from this direction turns out to be just as difficult.

Unless these quotas are done properly we're just cherry-picking, and whichever minority is not getting a quota is being discriminated against. You cannot allow for everything. Quotas are simply impractical without discrimination. 

Israeli snipers killing a Palestinian journalist in Gaza protests, journalist was wearing clearly marked "Press" vest.

How low can Israel go?!

Pretty low. For a country that keeps crying it is the victim, they pretty much dish it out to all of their neighbours...in the name of a pre-defensive act before they "might have been attacked"

Agree, but remember all the invasions by neighbouring countries over the last 70 years. Makes them trigger happy.

Still, that does not justify targeting and killing an identified member of the Press, nor the killing of 30 other palestinian protesters in gaza over the last week. 

They were picked off one by one by israeli snipers while they protested inside Gaza, on the border with israel. The sophistication of their weapons went as far as rocks and the burning of tires.

Hundreds were injured from being shot in the legs etc and needed treatment at hospitals in Gaza that struggle to keep up with their day to day demands let alone an influx of casualties. A very deliberate and callous tactic being employed by israel imo designed to break the back of the hospitals.

There's protecting oneself from a perceived attack and then there is the use of excessive force,

For a country that never fails to remind us of the evils of the holocaust they seem to have no problem with using violence to oppress others when it suits them....which is often.

No one can forgive or forget what 6 Million suffered in WWII. And rightly so.

But I would have thought that because they suffered so badly, that they might show more compassion towards another race also suffering as a result of the United Toothless Nations uplifting a race of people to allow that race a place to live.

There is certainly history there and threats to their security but the arrogance of that country will never allow a peaceful solution.

Always remember my first trip there as the security/customs guy dismantled our car and upon learning we were all kiwis, proudly told us that his family bombed us (the British)

He didn't thereafter take kindly to the ambiguous comment "you won't find it"

I think if Anne Frank were alive today she would be mortified at the way Israel carries on.

From oppressed to oppressor; from being forced to live in ghetto's to bulldozing peoples houses and stealing their land. Seems like Israel has crossed some sort of moral rubicon so to speak.

Imo There will be no peaceful solution to the Israel/Palestine issue because Israel holds all the cards/power and so long as the US props them up they are basically untouchable and their aggression will go unchallenged.

Got to feel for the Palestinians in all this, they must feel powerless against such odds and abandoned by any notion of justice

Anne Frank was German not Israeli. The Israelis bulldoze peoples homes if their family had been suicide bombers. Not too many of them now.Most Arabs in Israel are citizens. 

You are right about there being no peace solution right now, however you and I don't really understand the complex situation.

I was there in 1969 and have a minute understanding of the problems that confront this situation. 

Nail -> head.

Coincidentally, this is the number one reason why suicide bombing became an actual thing. Sheer desperation.

With all due respect, I think I have quite a good understanding of this situation and its not really complex at all...unless you bring religious entitlement into it ie the jews believing it is their god given right to occupy the land of palestine/modern day israel.

Other than that it is a simple case of a bunch of powerful people/entities sitting around a table drawing lines on maps and decided who lives where and who has to be moved off the land to make it happen. The Balfour Declaration was only the beginning.

As for Anne Frank she was jewish, correct? Israel is a self declared jewish state thus Frank and Israel share a very strong connection, With all Anne Franks talk of love and kindness I can't help but wonder what she would make of the contemporary state of israel.

Actually israel bulldozes peoples houses for a number of reasons.

Bulldozing someones house because a family member may have committed a crime is collective punishment which is actually illegal under international law.

Now here's a hot topic, hotter than anything else spoken about in here.

Popcorn flowing. 

Paul, I think it is a hot topic for a number of valid reasons too. Any slightest criticism of Israel or Jews and it gets blown out of all proportion and you are labeled anti-semtic.  Which in the real word is just bullshark. As I said earlier, whilst there is deserved sympathy on past wrongs done against the Jews, it should not be an excuse for their current practices under the guise of self defence.

People shy away or are afraid of what needs to be said, especially if it is the truth, for fear of offending something.

The one thing about this site as we have seen recently, is that rational and decent opinions or arguments warrent little or no moderation. However if these views were expressed in Israel, you'd  be arrested and probably have your house dozed.

To argue against the Jewish state does not necessarily  mean that you support the other countries. But I personally,  feel for the Lebanese and Palistinians. They have been put through enough and I am not surprised with their attitudes now. Throwing rocks v the latest automatic  weapons is not a fair fight.

Russia lost over 20 million people in WW2 yet that does not mean Russia is above criticism when it comes to how their country behaves and how it treats people in the here and now.

Neither does 20 million dead citizens in WW2 give Russia the right to spit in the face of international law with impunity; no Russia must be held accountable for their actions just like any other nation on this planet. 

Same goes for Israel.

When a country breaks international laws and conventions that country must expect repercussions. Trying to hide from crimes and/or deflecting them with claims of anti semitism simply does not stand up to close scrutiny. 

Hmmm we might need to tell the US all that!

They've been breaking international law since forever, without repercussions, because AMURICA!

For sure

and it is no surprise that Israel and the USA are joined at the hip by powerful lobby groups and the like.

America's day will come though, just like every other empire whos power waxed and then waned due to their own hubris

It's pretty crazy in the red square, whereas we have lists of the dead in our memorials, they have lists of destroyed cities.

Just going to offer a pre-emptive 'be careful' to those engaging in this discussion.

NATO /US broke international law when they bombed Serbia without the UN Security Council authorization.

Wasting your time talking about breaking  international law as dozens of countries have .

All good Hn. Only a discussion.

Semantics but pretty sure she was Dutch.

I’ve spent some time in Israel and it is complex. That happens when 3 religions each claim sacred sites, within one km of each other. Makes it somewhat fascinating.

Their ability to defeat constant invasion attempts from their Arab neighbours is to be admired, but that finished in 1973. Current Israeli treatment of Palestinians (spp) now closely parallels Apartheid South Africa.

Seeeping generalisation but on my world wide backpacker travels, young Israelis are top spot for highest rate of arse holes. Can be unbelievably rude to locals and fellow tourists. Far from all, but a higher % than any other country. No excuse, and you think if anything they would be encouraged to be PR ambassadors. My sample view is they mostly just don’t care what the world thinks of them.

She was born in Germany but lived most of her life in Amsterdam.

Are you worried about being taken out by Mossad or just ending up in the herald :-)

Strawman argument 

Why are the Palestinians firing things in the first place? 

Just highlights the huge imbalance of power though: 

-Israel oppresses Palestinians with dodgy laws, sophisticated weaponry, and downright aggression,  

-Palestinians respond in defiance with a few rocks or some rudimentary type of device that could be loosely described as a missile.

-Israel cries "we are under attack and we must defend ourselves!"

-Israel oppresses Palestinians with more dodgy laws, sophisticated weaponry, and downright aggression,

and on it goes.

Palestinians cannot succeed against such odds on their own and Israel knows it. In fact the only thing that surprises me is that Israel hasn't been even more bold and ruthless in its taking over of Palestine.

I really feel for the Palestinians as they must think that they have been abandoned by justice