I reckon Ingham would be more inclined to follow fitness plans of a club that pays his wages, focused on being ready for the A League season. He needs to be match fit for October through to April. Right now, it's still a month out from the season.
I mean, if he stays Hudson Fit all the time, there's longer term consequences with regard to overtraining, injury and fatigue over time. So in terms of 'being a professional', that's precisely what he's doing.
This simply isn't good enough from 3 players regarded as the future of the AWs. Hopefully this makes them realise Hudson is serious and they get their A into G.
Disregarding what Hudson coulda/shoulda/woulda done in the past, this is 100% the right move and good on him. There shouldn't be any excuses on Inghams part.
The only thing Hudson is serious about is protecting his own reputation. Even if it means throwing young players under the bus.
That's a far, far more cynical view than I would be willing to take.
I wish it was cynical.
You're right. Absurd is closer.
I can't see any of the players standing for Hudson chucking a kid to protect his own reputation.
I admire your youthful enthusiasm.
I wish I could say the same for your conspiracy theories
You're young. If you actually knew how NZF operated, you'd be appalled.
This simply isn't good enough from 3 players regarded as the future of the AWs. Hopefully this makes them realise Hudson is serious and they get their A into G.
Disregarding what Hudson coulda/shoulda/woulda done in the past, this is 100% the right move and good on him. There shouldn't be any excuses on Inghams part.
The only thing Hudson is serious about is protecting his own reputation. Even if it means throwing young players under the bus.
That's a far, far more cynical view than I would be willing to take.
I wish it was cynical.
You're right. Absurd is closer.
I can't see any of the players standing for Hudson chucking a kid to protect his own reputation.
I admire your youthful enthusiasm.
I wish I could say the same for your conspiracy theories
You're young. If you actually knew how NZF operated, you'd be appalled.
You're an old fudge so you're automatically smarter than me? Go fudge yourself
I know how NZ football works. I also know people inside the camp and I'll take what they're saying over what you're saying, thanks.
This simply isn't good enough from 3 players regarded as the future of the AWs. Hopefully this makes them realise Hudson is serious and they get their A into G.
Disregarding what Hudson coulda/shoulda/woulda done in the past, this is 100% the right move and good on him. There shouldn't be any excuses on Inghams part.
The only thing Hudson is serious about is protecting his own reputation. Even if it means throwing young players under the bus.
That's a far, far more cynical view than I would be willing to take.
I wish it was cynical.
You're right. Absurd is closer.
I can't see any of the players standing for Hudson chucking a kid to protect his own reputation.
I admire your youthful enthusiasm.
I wish I could say the same for your conspiracy theories
You're young. If you actually knew how NZF operated, you'd be appalled.
You're an old fudge so you're automatically smarter than me? Go fudge yourself
I know how NZ football works. I also know people inside the camp and I'll take what they're saying over what you're saying, thanks.
So young, yet such bad language, Tsk, tsk, tsk.
This simply isn't good enough from 3 players regarded as the future of the AWs. Hopefully this makes them realise Hudson is serious and they get their A into G.
Disregarding what Hudson coulda/shoulda/woulda done in the past, this is 100% the right move and good on him. There shouldn't be any excuses on Inghams part.
The only thing Hudson is serious about is protecting his own reputation. Even if it means throwing young players under the bus.
That's a far, far more cynical view than I would be willing to take.
I wish it was cynical.
You're right. Absurd is closer.
I can't see any of the players standing for Hudson chucking a kid to protect his own reputation.
I admire your youthful enthusiasm.
I wish I could say the same for your conspiracy theories
You're young. If you actually knew how NZF operated, you'd be appalled.
You're an old fudge so you're automatically smarter than me? Go fudge yourself
I know how NZ football works. I also know people inside the camp and I'll take what they're saying over what you're saying, thanks.
So young, yet such bad language, Tsk, tsk, tsk.
I love it. Miss the ball, play the man.
This simply isn't good enough from 3 players regarded as the future of the AWs. Hopefully this makes them realise Hudson is serious and they get their A into G.
Disregarding what Hudson coulda/shoulda/woulda done in the past, this is 100% the right move and good on him. There shouldn't be any excuses on Inghams part.
The only thing Hudson is serious about is protecting his own reputation. Even if it means throwing young players under the bus.
That's a far, far more cynical view than I would be willing to take.
I wish it was cynical.
You're right. Absurd is closer.
I can't see any of the players standing for Hudson chucking a kid to protect his own reputation.
I admire your youthful enthusiasm.
I wish I could say the same for your conspiracy theories
You're young. If you actually knew how NZF operated, you'd be appalled.
You're an old fudge so you're automatically smarter than me? Go fudge yourself
I know how NZ football works. I also know people inside the camp and I'll take what they're saying over what you're saying, thanks.
So young, yet such bad language, Tsk, tsk, tsk.
I love it. Miss the ball, play the man.
You have to know the game before you can play it.
If he turned up overweight then I can see why he wouldn't select him but chucking him from the camp and announcing it publicly feels like grandstanding.
Hang on a second. You told him to fudge himself and you accuse EG of playing the man? I've seen EG 'play the man' and they don't usually walk away.
Both of you calm down no matter how wrong one of you may be.
Not here for a debate. Stop.
Hang on a second. You told him to fudge himself and you accuse EG of playing the man? I've seen EG 'play the man' and they don't usually walk away.
Both of you calm down no matter how wrong one of you may be.
Its a fair reaction to an ageist comment.
Back on topic - I think Hudson has handled this about as well as could be expected.
Hang on a second. You told him to fudge himself and you accuse EG of playing the man? I've seen EG 'play the man' and they don't usually walk away.
Both of you calm down no matter how wrong one of you may be.
Not here for a debate. Stop.
You know I've grown to be calm and composed in my old age Newsy.
But anyway. JD is right, this is not about Ingham's fitness or lack thereof, but about Hudson's handling of it.
I don't know if it was a coincidence or not but the main article with quotes from Durante in the paper today was about fitness...so I am not convinced about Hudson's motivations necessarily but I am not convinced this needed to be aired in public, especially when it is a young guy
I don't know if it was a coincidence or not but the main article with quotes from Durante in the paper today was about fitness...so I am not convinced about Hudson's motivations necessarily but I am not convinced this needed to be aired in public, especially when it is a young guy
I wonder how many of the people on here have actually managed/coached any sport at a high level or even managed staff where you are always trying to obtain high performance from them. I ask that because these are pretty basic methods of bringing people into line to embrace organisational goals if they haven't taken that step themselves of their own accord. Nothing wrong with a few heads on stakes at the village gates to get people focused.
I think the point people are trying to make though NP is that he'd already made this point with Tuiloma and Lewis (and with every press conference he's given in the last 12 months) so 3 weeks ago he appears to have had a grasp on player fitness.
Has Ingham slipped since then despite playing significant minutes for the Roar? Seems unlikely.
I don't know if it was a coincidence or not but the main article with quotes from Durante in the paper today was about fitness...so I am not convinced about Hudson's motivations necessarily but I am not convinced this needed to be aired in public, especially when it is a young guy
I wonder how many of the people on here have actually managed/coached any sport at a high level or even managed staff where you are always trying to obtain high performance from them. I ask that because these are pretty basic methods of bringing people into line to embrace organisational goals if they haven't taken that step themselves of their own accord. Nothing wrong with a few heads on stakes at the village gates to get people focused.
That's the hilarious thing about this. Forum complains when players leave the team/squad/camp for vague 'personal reasons'. Forum complains when players leave the team/squad/camp and management is up-front about the reasoning. Hudson just can't win ! (pun somehwat intended).
I suspect you will find that the people questioning one are not necessarily the same as those questioning the other.
I think the point people are trying to make though NP is that he'd already made this point with Tuiloma and Lewis (and with every press conference he's given in the last 12 months) so 3 weeks ago he appears to have had a grasp on player fitness.
Has Ingham slipped since then despite playing significant minutes for the Roar? Seems unlikely.
Different players, different clubs, different situations, different lines of reporting on player progress. It's not at all hard to believe that he had better or more accurate information on the progress of some players than others. You criticise NZF for being a badly run organisation but expect them to know exactly how all the international players are faring in relation to conditioning at all times?
I don't know if it was a coincidence or not but the main article with quotes from Durante in the paper today was about fitness...so I am not convinced about Hudson's motivations necessarily but I am not convinced this needed to be aired in public, especially when it is a young guy
I wonder how many of the people on here have actually managed/coached any sport at a high level or even managed staff where you are always trying to obtain high performance from them. I ask that because these are pretty basic methods of bringing people into line to embrace organisational goals if they haven't taken that step themselves of their own accord. Nothing wrong with a few heads on stakes at the village gates to get people focused.
Only my personal view and I am not sure how out of shape he was or how much of this had been communicated to players but I wouldn't generally advocate kicking someone out of a squad - rather I would keep them htere and hopefully impress upon them the level they need to be at. But that might be too charitable
I would expect all players being called up into a squad to be under the same level of review and expectations but we're meant to believe that is not the case here. It's not like we're tracking thousands of players here. It is at most 30 probably less.
We're meant to believe he has a better image of Tuiloma's fitness from off-season France and the US reserves than Ingham who he could have watched playing for Brisbane Roar as recently as a fortnight ago?
I'm not denying that Ingham may have not met expectations but the handling of it strikes me as poor and the inconsistency leaves the reasoning open to interpretation.
I think the point people are trying to make though NP is that he'd already made this point with Tuiloma and Lewis (and with every press conference he's given in the last 12 months) so 3 weeks ago he appears to have had a grasp on player fitness.
Has Ingham slipped since then despite playing significant minutes for the Roar? Seems unlikely.
Different players, different clubs, different situations, different lines of reporting on player progress. It's not at all hard to believe that he had better or more accurate information on the progress of some players than others. You criticise NZF for being a badly run organisation but expect them to know exactly how all the international players are faring in relation to conditioning at all times?
Yes, that's his job as coach. He knew Tuiloma and Lewis were unfit but not Ingham?
Pretty sad to see Ingham sent home, but isn't this the professionalism we've all been yearning for for years? The team obviously had an outline of what was required and he didn't meet it. Plain and simple. Doesn't matter what Durante's fitness is like, his position at the moment doesnt have the depth. If Ingham thinks he can waltz on in because he's played against Ronaldo this is obviously the wake up call he needs.
What I am slightly annoyed with it seems from Smeltzy instagram he is still with the squad - despite being unfit to play. Be consistent Anfony and send him home also.
The bit I don't buy is that Anfony is so worried about being shown up by the Solomons that he's using Ingham as "bait" for the media to get his excuses in first. That's something out of a book by Nicky Hager, ascribing levels of Machiavellianism to Hudson which frankly I don't think someone who tries to buff up his own Wiki page is capable of.
Hudson's record of weird decisions is way, way bigger than just this later batch of fitness-related squad choices. I don't know how he still gets the benefit of the doubt from some quarters.
What odds are the TAB offering on the Solomons progressing to the intercontinental playoff? I might get on that....
The bit I don't buy is that Anfony is so worried about being shown up by the Solomons that he's using Ingham as "bait" for the media to get his excuses in first. That's something out of a book by Nicky Hager, ascribing levels of Machiavellianism to Hudson which frankly I don't think someone who tries to buff up his own Wiki page is capable of.
It's possible to be playing big minutes while not being fit (watch any game of park football). For all we know, he may have been picked because of his playing time, then been off the pace once put through paces at the camp. Despite the long off season, he should be staying in reasonable nick. After all, the top players overseas barely have a month off.
Dura may have been injured, but a seasoned pro and senior player, you'd put the house on him doing anything and everything to keep that base level of fitness at a satisfactory level.
...in a position that he has plenty of cover in.
Dura may have been injured, but a seasoned pro and senior player, you'd put the house on him doing anything and everything to keep that base level of fitness at a satisfactory level.
Dura failed a fitness test for the Nix this week. Don't think the standard Hudson expects is lower than the Phoenix's.
I don't know if it was a coincidence or not but the main article with quotes from Durante in the paper today was about fitness...so I am not convinced about Hudson's motivations necessarily but I am not convinced this needed to be aired in public, especially when it is a young guy
I wonder how many of the people on here have actually managed/coached any sport at a high level or even managed staff where you are always trying to obtain high performance from them. I ask that because these are pretty basic methods of bringing people into line to embrace organisational goals if they haven't taken that step themselves of their own accord. Nothing wrong with a few heads on stakes at the village gates to get people focused.
I think you'll find that most people prefer a leader who isn't likely to put their head on a stake if they don't meet expectations. And clearly Hudson is not commanding much respect because if he was, players would be doing everything they could to play for him. Results speak for themselves and his are basically rubbish.
Dura may have been injured, but a seasoned pro and senior player, you'd put the house on him doing anything and everything to keep that base level of fitness at a satisfactory level.
Dura failed a fitness test for the Nix this week. Don't think the standard Hudson expects is lower than the Phoenix's.
Pretty sure that "unfit" is code for "a bit fat"
I think the point people are trying to make though NP is that he'd already made this point with Tuiloma and Lewis (and with every press conference he's given in the last 12 months) so 3 weeks ago he appears to have had a grasp on player fitness.
Has Ingham slipped since then despite playing significant minutes for the Roar? Seems unlikely.
Different players, different clubs, different situations, different lines of reporting on player progress. It's not at all hard to believe that he had better or more accurate information on the progress of some players than others. You criticise NZF for being a badly run organisation but expect them to know exactly how all the international players are faring in relation to conditioning at all times?
Yes, that's his job as coach. He knew Tuiloma and Lewis were unfit but not Ingham?
Perhaps Ingham was given a heads up and told he has to pass the fitness test this week and has failed?
There are a few explanations.... Not jumping aboard this conspiracy just yet.
Dura may have been injured, but a seasoned pro and senior player, you'd put the house on him doing anything and everything to keep that base level of fitness at a satisfactory level.
Dura failed a fitness test for the Nix this week. Don't think the standard Hudson expects is lower than the Phoenix's.
Difference there between free-from-injury fitness and conditioning fitness. Dura failed the former, Ingham failed the latter.
Dura may have been injured, but a seasoned pro and senior player, you'd put the house on him doing anything and everything to keep that base level of fitness at a satisfactory level.
Dura failed a fitness test for the Nix this week. Don't think the standard Hudson expects is lower than the Phoenix's.
Difference there between free-from-injury fitness and conditioning fitness. Dura failed the former, Ingham failed the latter.
Doesn't it mean that neither can perform at the standard that Hudson expects?
Dura may have been injured, but a seasoned pro and senior player, you'd put the house on him doing anything and everything to keep that base level of fitness at a satisfactory level.
Dura failed a fitness test for the Nix this week. Don't think the standard Hudson expects is lower than the Phoenix's.
Difference there between free-from-injury fitness and conditioning fitness. Dura failed the former, Ingham failed the latter.
Doesn't it mean that neither can perform at the standard that Hudson expects?
Perhaps not - but does reflect discipline or lack thereof, as with sportspeople stood down for breaking curfew etc.
Dura may have been injured, but a seasoned pro and senior player, you'd put the house on him doing anything and everything to keep that base level of fitness at a satisfactory level.
Dura failed a fitness test for the Nix this week. Don't think the standard Hudson expects is lower than the Phoenix's.
Difference there between free-from-injury fitness and conditioning fitness. Dura failed the former, Ingham failed the latter.
Doesn't it mean that neither can perform at the standard that Hudson expects?
According to Burgess not only did Ingham's body fat measure fail to meet required standard but he failed 'to complete' his beep tests. Not just perform poorly in them but didn't complete them.
In other words he was so out of shape his body gave up.
The only other explanation is he gave up for some other reason.
#notaconspiracy
I have no issue with this.
He's a professional athlete, knew the games were coming up, knew what the coach expected and didn't match up.
The excuse he's in pre season is bollocks, does anyone think Roars coaches would tell him off for being too fit?
Learn from it, and come back a better player for it.
Let's face it, Anfony is now hated (maybe rightly) for matters unrelated to his competence or otherwise as a coach, and even if we made the WC, even if we made it out of our group, several here would still think he was a douchebag and want him sacked, amirite? He could quite literally do nothing to make it up to such people.
I hear Luka Prelevic has been keeping trim just in case of a late call up.
how's this for our unfit/in bad books/don't want to play side?
Gleeson
Ingham, Reid, Smith, Fitzgerald,
Lewis, Tuiloma, Rojas
Boyd, Smeltz, Brockie
Think it would deal to Hudsons side
how's this for our unfit/in bad books/don't want to play side?
Gleeson
Ingham, Reid, Smith, Fitzgerald,
Lewis, Tuiloma, Rojas
Boyd, Smeltz, Brockie
Think it would deal to Hudsons side
An illogical selection. The 3 best players in this eleven (Reid, Smith & Rojas) Hudson would pick in a heartbeat.
Sort of backs Doloras's assertion that some people here, will dislike AH no matter what he does, or doesn't do.
see the word unfit before you get all Hudson on me pal
