Anyone else got a harder conundrum to solve?
Awwwww Ref - Know The Laws
Dear refs,
I watched United ressies v Petone ressies last week and I have a question regarding a pen. United were awarded a pen, which TopLeft07 took. It was partially saved by the keeper, but the rebound was slotted home. However, the ref said that united player encroached, and award an indirect free kick to petone.
Is this legit, or should have the penalty been retaken?
Ta.
I watched United ressies v Petone ressies last week and I have a question regarding a pen. United were awarded a pen, which TopLeft07 took. It was partially saved by the keeper, but the rebound was slotted home. However, the ref said that united player encroached, and award an indirect free kick to petone.
Is this legit, or should have the penalty been retaken?
Ta.
Dear refs,
I watched United ressies v Petone ressies last week and I have a question regarding a pen. United were awarded a pen, which TopLeft07 took. It was partially saved by the keeper, but the rebound was slotted home. However, the ref said that united player encroached, and award an indirect free kick to petone.
Is this legit, or should have the penalty been retaken?
Ta.
I watched United ressies v Petone ressies last week and I have a question regarding a pen. United were awarded a pen, which TopLeft07 took. It was partially saved by the keeper, but the rebound was slotted home. However, the ref said that united player encroached, and award an indirect free kick to petone.
Is this legit, or should have the penalty been retaken?
Ta.
He got it spot on - the initial penalty kick did not enter the goal.
LotG - Law 14
a team-mate of the player taking the kick infringes the Laws of the Game:
� the referee allows the kick to be taken
� if the ball enters the goal, the kick is retaken
� if the ball does not enter the goal, the referee stops play and the match is
restarted with an indirect free kick to the defending team, from the place
where the infringement occurred
Anyone else got a harder conundrum to solve?
Its a Chatham cup game, the score is tied at 10-10 after extra time and both teams have used their 3 subs... it goes to pens. The first pens taken, the keeper parries it to the post, it bounces back to the keeper but rolls over the goal line... just. The ref awards the goal, the keeper disputes it and shows dissent to the refs decision, and gets sent off before facing the remaining 4 pens.
What now?
Outfield player has to take the keepers jersey/role I would have thought.
Guidelines for determining a winner with kicks from the penalty mark states:
An eligible player may change places with the goalkeeper at any time when
kicks from the penalty mark are being taken
Which I would take to mean that if the GK was sent off during the KftPM then any eligible player that was on the park for the kciks can take over goalkeeping duties.
Why was the GK having a go at the ref anyway?
ginger_eejit2010-05-03 21:02:55
Guidelines for determining a winner with kicks from the penalty mark states:
An eligible player may change places with the goalkeeper at any time when
kicks from the penalty mark are being taken
Which I would take to mean that if the GK was sent off during the KftPM then any eligible player that was on the park for the kciks can take over goalkeeping duties.
Why was the GK having a go at the ref anyway?
ginger_eejit2010-05-03 21:02:55
Hmm, I never even thought of that... 
sounds about right. Actually, I remember Pohong had their keeper sent off against Atlante after the bench was exhausted in the CWC, and an out field player had to jump in goal. Not pens but I guess its the same scenario.
sounds about right. Actually, I remember Pohong had their keeper sent off against Atlante after the bench was exhausted in the CWC, and an out field player had to jump in goal. Not pens but I guess its the same scenario.
Famous moment in Mladen Petric's career.
Of course, this is what Petric is actually paid to do on the football field.
Dear refs,I watched United ressies v Petone ressies last week and I have a question regarding a pen. United were awarded a pen, which TopLeft07 took.� It was partially saved by the keeper, but the rebound was slotted home. However, the ref said that united player encroached, and award an indirect free kick to petone.Is this legit, or should have the penalty been retaken?Ta.
He got it spot on - the initial penalty kick did not enter the goal.LotG - Law 14a team-mate of the player taking the kick infringes the Laws of the Game:� the referee allows the kick to be taken� if the ball enters the goal, the kick is retaken� if the ball does not enter the goal, the referee stops play and the match isrestarted with an indirect free kick to the defending team, from the placewhere the infringement occurred
That's the answer I got from him at half time. As I said in the Cap 1 thread, I thought the ref had a good game, in fact the best I've seen in awhile. So well done to him.
Re: the penalty save. Funny thing is, as good as he did to save the penalty as an outfield player, technically speaking it should have been retaken as he came off his line. (for disclosure, while I am a referee, statements made on these forums are all my own opinions and are not necesarily shared by capital football or any of its affiliates).
My friend booked player yesterday for dissent. I think we disagree on whether it's a booking or not...
The ball struck the bar bounced down and was cleared. The player challenged him, the ref, saying "that's a goal ref".
In the case of that comment ALONE, is that dissent?
In the case where the player makes several comments, similar to the one above, through the match is that dissent?
Here's a good one from yesterday. Two players contest the ball and it goes out for a throw. A pretty hard one to call in my opinion and the ref agrees so calls a drop ball! Later the opposition get a free kick and the ref concentrates on the ball position. The kick gets taken and the ref gets an earful for not watching the offside. The ref blows the whistle, books the offending defender and then gives the defending team the ball. Tadaaa!!!
Quote from Smithy"we don't know what we're doing!"
Quote from Smithy"we don't know what we're doing!"
How 'bout this one?
What would happen if a defender gave a real dodgy back pass and it's bouncing and about to go in top corner and the goalie tips it over the bar with his hands. Indirect free kick on the 6, but does the goalie get sent off for deliberate handball?Ta
How 'bout this one?
What would happen if a defender gave a real dodgy back pass and it's bouncing and about to go in top corner and the goalie tips it over the bar with his hands. Indirect free kick on the 6, but does the goalie get sent off for deliberate handball?Ta
No. Keeper can't be dismissed in that scenario. When I get back to my laptop, I'll dig out the exact wording from the LotG for you.
How 'bout this one?
What would happen if a defender gave a real dodgy back pass and it's bouncing and about to go in top corner and the goalie tips it over the bar with his hands. Indirect free kick on the 6, but does the goalie get sent off for deliberate handball?Ta
No
He's not denied the attacking team a obvious goal scoring opportunity - the attacking team were not in possesion
He's not handled the ball outside the 18yd box, so no direct FK
So as per any passback ruling - it's a IFK from where the offence took place
My friend booked player yesterday for dissent. I think we disagree on whether it's a booking or not...
The ball struck the bar bounced down and was cleared. The player challenged him, the ref, saying "that's a goal ref".
In the case of that comment ALONE, is that dissent?
In the case where the player makes several comments, similar to the one above, through the match is that dissent?
There's no real hard and fast rules in the laws of the game as to what's dissent and what's not. As per any ruling of the LotG, it's down to the caveat of "In the opinion of the referee"
The tempo, level of agression, player temperment and a host of other conditions needs to be taken into consideration.
So no-one here can say yes or no to where or not "that's a goal ref" would be regarded as dissent, as none of us were the ref involved, and obviously he felt it was dissent.
Re: the penalty save. Funny thing is, as good as he did to save the penalty as an outfield player, technically speaking it should have been retaken as he came off his line. (for disclosure, while I am a referee, statements made on these forums are all my own opinions and are not necesarily shared by capital football or any of its affiliates).
Where there any ARs at this game?
Here's a good one from yesterday. Two players contest the ball and it goes out for a throw. A pretty hard one to call in my opinion and the ref agrees so calls a drop ball! Later the opposition get a free kick and the ref concentrates on the ball position. The kick gets taken and the ref gets an earful for not watching the offside. The ref blows the whistle, books the offending defender and then gives the defending team the ball. Tadaaa!!!
Quote from Smithy"we don't know what we're doing!"
Quote from Smithy"we don't know what we're doing!"
Too much protest by players around who gets a throw in, for what is only a restart of the game.
Not sure what your question is anyway?!?!
I don't see any problem with awarding a IFK for an offside offence, as well as cautioning the defending player for dissent.
Whether or not the offside is awarded, is seperate from the defending players dissent.
So no-one here can say yes or no to where or not "that's a goal ref" would be regarded as dissent, as none of us were the ref involved, and obviously he felt it was dissent.
Absolutely.
[/QUOTE]
Too much protest by players around who gets a throw in, for what is only a restart of the game.
Not sure what your question is anyway?!?!
I don't see any problem with awarding a IFK for an offside offence, as well as cautioning the defending player for dissent.
Whether or not the offside is awarded, is seperate from the defending players dissent.
[/QUOTE]
There was no offside decision as he wasn't in a position to see one anyway. The game was stopped so he could book the dissenter and should have given a free kick/penalty to the attackers I would have thought.
Throw ins can be difficult at times however a throw in is the only outcome possible here, unless an infringement of some variety occured before the ball went out. In regards to the dissent, was the ball still in play when the ref blew the whistle or had it gone out for a goal kick or something?
Still in play
Then in that case they could either play on which would be desirable if the attacking team had posession and a promising attacking opportunity (obviously a descretion call) and the caution given at the next stoppage in play. Alternatively an indirect free kick could be awarded where the dissenting player was.
Frank,
What is the directive for a referee for corners? ie where should he be standing?? is it on the goal line so he can see if the ball goes in/out when the corner is taken?? or at the edge of the 18yrd box to see any pushing etc? or is a personel choice thing??
I normally stand on the goal line so I can see if its' in or out etc - no AR's in school games
[/QUOTE]
Too much protest by players around who gets a throw in, for what is only a restart of the game.
Not sure what your question is anyway?!?!
I don't see any problem with awarding a IFK for an offside offence, as well as cautioning the defending player for dissent.
Whether or not the offside is awarded, is seperate from the defending players dissent.
[/QUOTE]
There was no offside decision as he wasn't in a position to see one anyway. The game was stopped so he could book the dissenter and should have given a free kick/penalty to the attackers I would have thought.
This from Law 12 - Fouls and Misconduct
"An indirect free kick is also awarded to the opposing team if, in the opinion of
the referee, a player:
� plays in a dangerous manner
� impedes the progress of an opponent
� prevents the goalkeeper from releasing the ball from his hands
� commits any other offence, not previously mentioned in Law 12, for which
play is stopped to caution or send off a player
The indirect free kick is taken from the place where the offence occurred"
In this instance it sounds like play was stopped to administer a caution for dissent as no other foul or misconduct had occured (Dissent is not misconduct in law 12)
Re start is then an indirect freekick to opposing team.
It is relatively rare for ref to have to stop play when no foul has occured...it's happened to me once in 12 years - was chased down field once in Tauranga by a striker who was swearing at me for not awarding a penalty for a dive..red card and indirect free kick to defending team.
Offside question.
In a game a few weeks ago our keeper came a fair bit off his line to challenge an opponent, at the same time one of our defenders ran to cover the keeper and was positioned on the goal line. The opponent then decided to pass the ball to a team mate who was closer to the goal than the keeper but with a defender on the goal line.
The ref didn't call offside and a goal was subsequently scored. I pointed out to the ref that the goal scorer was offside as he wasn't level (or behind) with the 2nd to last defender (our keeper) and also wasn't in line or behind the player who passed the ball to him. The ref then proceeded to be a dick about the situation and about 15min later told me keeper's don't count for offsides.
I would like to know what is the correct ruling in this situation?
In a game a few weeks ago our keeper came a fair bit off his line to challenge an opponent, at the same time one of our defenders ran to cover the keeper and was positioned on the goal line. The opponent then decided to pass the ball to a team mate who was closer to the goal than the keeper but with a defender on the goal line.
The ref didn't call offside and a goal was subsequently scored. I pointed out to the ref that the goal scorer was offside as he wasn't level (or behind) with the 2nd to last defender (our keeper) and also wasn't in line or behind the player who passed the ball to him. The ref then proceeded to be a dick about the situation and about 15min later told me keeper's don't count for offsides.
I would like to know what is the correct ruling in this situation?
Frank,
What is the directive for a referee for corners? ie where should he be standing?? is it on the goal line so he can see if the ball goes in/out when the corner is taken?? or at the edge of the 18yrd box to see any pushing etc? or is a personel choice thing??
Ref takes up best position based on circumstances - i.e. what the ref thinks he/she needs to be looking at e.g. if niggly between keeper and striker ref may want a really clear view of that area and then positions based on where other players are to get the best view.
If AR on goal line is not necessary as AR can look after ball in/out and ref not really getting a great view of general play from there - but it could be possible.
If no AR probably a reasonable idea is to be in a position to be able to see if ball is in/out (depending on quality of corner taker) and to monitor challenges for the ball
The ref was wrong, from the situation you describe the goal should have been disallowed for offside.
EDIT: In response to Bullion's question.el grapadura2010-05-17 11:34:01
EDIT: In response to Bullion's question.el grapadura2010-05-17 11:34:01
Offside question.
In a game a few weeks ago our keeper came a fair bit off his line to challenge an opponent, at the same time one of our defenders ran to cover the keeper and was positioned on the goal line. The opponent then decided to pass the ball to a team mate who was closer to the goal than the keeper but with a defender on the goal line.
The ref didn't call offside and a goal was subsequently scored. I pointed out to the ref that the goal scorer was offside as he wasn't level (or behind) with the 2nd to last defender (our keeper) and also wasn't in line or behind the player who passed the ball to him. The ref then proceeded to be a dick about the situation and about 15min later told me keeper's don't count for offsides.
I would like to know what is the correct ruling in this situation?
In a game a few weeks ago our keeper came a fair bit off his line to challenge an opponent, at the same time one of our defenders ran to cover the keeper and was positioned on the goal line. The opponent then decided to pass the ball to a team mate who was closer to the goal than the keeper but with a defender on the goal line.
The ref didn't call offside and a goal was subsequently scored. I pointed out to the ref that the goal scorer was offside as he wasn't level (or behind) with the 2nd to last defender (our keeper) and also wasn't in line or behind the player who passed the ball to him. The ref then proceeded to be a dick about the situation and about 15min later told me keeper's don't count for offsides.
I would like to know what is the correct ruling in this situation?
This from Law 11 - Offside
It is not an offence in itself to be in an offside position.
A player is in an offside position if:
� he is nearer to his opponents� goal line than both the ball and the
second-last opponent
A player in an offside position is only penalised if, at the moment the ball
touches or is played by one of his team, he is, in the opinion of the referee,
involved in active play by:
� interfering with play or
� interfering with an opponent or
� gaining an advantage by being in that position
So in circumsatnce described the attacker would be offside if player met any of the 3 criteria. Your description is not clear as you don't say what the attacker did when attacker was passed the ball. You mention a team mate and a goal scorer - were these the same player?
Assuming that the team mate was also the goal scorer and was ahead of the ball when it was played then offside offence comitted
keefy_NZ2010-05-17 11:43:03
I thought it was clear that the player who was ahead of the ball and the second last defender (keeper) when the ball was passed to him by his teammate scored the goal from the original quote.
I thought it was clear that the player who was ahead of the ball and the second last defender (keeper) when the ball was passed to him by his teammate scored the goal from the original quote.
Probably right but these 2 sentences could bring doubt into it
The opponent then decided to pass the ball to a team mate who was closer to the goal than the keeper but with a defender on the goal line.
The ref didn't call offside and a goal was subsequently scored.
Particularly just saying goal subsequently scored - could have been any sequence of events not mentioned before the goal was subsequently scored (but happy to agree that it is unlikely
).The law is clear so having a clear and full description of event can help when answering.
keefy_NZ2010-05-17 11:54:23
Sorry I did not accurately describe the situation. Yes the attacker who scored was the opponent that received the ball in an offside position.
Shown here: (Our team is represented by the Phoenix and opponents in black)
Is it possible that all teams that are registered to play get at least a photocopy of the rules (increase subs for each team by $5 to cover this) and someone from the team sign an agreement to follow the rules. Not everyone will read or follow the rules, but I am sure over time the rules will be applied more correctly.
Shown here: (Our team is represented by the Phoenix and opponents in black)
Is it possible that all teams that are registered to play get at least a photocopy of the rules (increase subs for each team by $5 to cover this) and someone from the team sign an agreement to follow the rules. Not everyone will read or follow the rules, but I am sure over time the rules will be applied more correctly.
Sorry I did not accurately describe the situation. Yes the attacker who scored was the opponent that received the ball in an offside position.
Shown here: (Our team is represented by the Phoenix and opponents in black)
Is it possible that all teams that are registered to play get at least a photocopy of the rules (increase subs for each team by $5 to cover this) and someone from the team sign an agreement to follow the rules. Not everyone will read or follow the rules, but I am sure over time the rules will be applied more correctly.
Shown here: (Our team is represented by the Phoenix and opponents in black)
Is it possible that all teams that are registered to play get at least a photocopy of the rules (increase subs for each team by $5 to cover this) and someone from the team sign an agreement to follow the rules. Not everyone will read or follow the rules, but I am sure over time the rules will be applied more correctly.
Clear as......player is offside
Did striker do a Cruyff turn to then face the right way to score or was it a delicious back heel
Would be great if everyone involved in the game took some time to study the laws..
they can be viewed here...
http://www.fifa.com/aboutfifa/documentlibrary/doclists/laws.html
keefy_NZ2010-05-17 12:29:41
Would be great if everyone involved in the game took some time to study the laws..they can be viewed here...http://www.fifa.com/aboutfifa/documentlibrary/doclists/laws.html
Couldn't agree more - remember once having a lengthy and colourful argument with a team-mate when he told us (the backline) to step up on the opposition's goal-kick to catch their forwards offside and I told him that that wouldn't be the best idea...
The ref actually booked me for using a 'colourful' expression and then told me I was right...
I always shake my head in disbelief at players who shout for offside at goal kicks and throw-ins. (usually accompanied by a colourfully worded internal monologue questioning the player in question's understanding of the laws of the game)
The offside law is the most misunderstood in the lower divs, and the cause of the most frustration*
Every game we have an oppo full back (and sometimes our own) screaming at the ref about a player being off side when the ball is down the other end of the field-
it is not an offence in itself to be in an offside position
*closely followed by tackles from behind/sliding tackles
The offside law is the most misunderstood in the lower divs, and the cause of the most frustration*
Every game we have an oppo full back (and sometimes our own) screaming at the ref about a player being off side when the ball is down the other end of the field-
it is not an offence in itself to be in an offside position
*closely followed by tackles from behind/sliding tackles
I also find this to be mostly misunderstood....
Law 12
A direct free kick is awarded to the opposing team if a player commits any
of the following seven offences in a manner considered by the referee to be
careless, reckless or using excessive force:
� kicks or attempts to kick an opponent
� trips or attempts to trip an opponent
� jumps at an opponent
� charges an opponent
� strikes or attempts to strike an opponent
� pushes an opponent
� tackles an opponent
Have lost count of the number of times when penalised a player says...but I won the ball!
The careless element particularly!
I love this thread. So many lol's. Keep it up folks 
Or even worse - "I was going for the ball (although I clearly got nowhere near it)..."