National League review and future

That's more the issue. 

Christian Karembeu?

So to clarify: The plan is have our resident professional Aussie team plus one more mythical resident Auckland team play in Australia then fill the void in our national league with some island teams??!!!

Here's a novel idea: Why not have no NZ based teams playing in the A-League and instead have those teams play in the ASBP. Therefore, negating the need to fill the national league with NZ 9th grade international teams, Cook Island club teams and Australian reserve teams!... Hell, we could even invite YHM back.

I'd like to publicly poo poo the idea of club based national league. 

I like supporting my club in the winter, then supporting the city team in the summer. How am I going to support my rival? Will we end up with 6 club teams from the Upper North Island?

Still don't get why NZF don't emphasis the importance of coaching licences , Where having an minimum of the OFC A licence (equivalent or higher) to coach in the ASBP.

If the ASBP is there to develop players then it should be there to develop coaching with no exceptions not to be educated.

Maybe that should be a OFC view point on its Champions league requirements.

FIFA / UEFA and others put a lot of funds into Oceania for (Free) education courses for coaching / refereeing that it should be our strong point or the whole regions for that matter.

Except of course , for the YHM bit......

Hearing some interesting rumour about potential streaming coverage.

Sorry for the lateness in response but I have been away for a couple of weeks. This might have already been raised [I haven't gone thru the thread yet]. Napier HB is not Napier City Rovers in disguise. While they play at their ground [owned by the Council] use their facilities and a lot of the volunteers are from NCR, the players and coaches are not always NCR. In fact this year the complaint is that there are bugger all [almost none] players from HB at all in the team. In saying that, you might be right about the other 3 clubs you mentioned.

I'm really saying that off field it's a club team re-badged, which you've confirmed basically haven't you?

JD - the Hawkes Bay United team contains just 2 current NCR players.   I repeat what Napier P said that the games are played at Park Island (as this is the only suitable venue in the Bay) and that the volunteers come from NCR as I get the impression that no one else is interested.   It is more convenient for the HBU organisation to contract the match day out.   HBU is definitely not NCR in disguise.

Mores the pity that the aforementioned teams above did not join Oceania when it was formed.  

If we had the likes of Indonesia, Malaysia, Singapore (who have had Aussie clubs play in their national league) and the Philippines, OFC would not be a laughing stock and Australia would still be here  

This would have the natural knock-on effect of having more pro kiwis as they wouldn't be foreigners in Aus as they are now and there would be that full WC spot.

For me personally franchising is the way to go with all pokie money administered by a central body with all clubs/franchises both summer and winter being fully open and audited to ensure that this money is used on improving the youth, administrators, coaches and facilities, not lining average players pockets as we know happens.

I'd also love to see Manuwatu, Nelson, Gisborne, and BoP (with WaiBop reverting to Waikato) along with a PI team or two in the league.  As much as some here might not like it, the PI avenue may well be the best way to grow the league and see it televised.  I'm sure we all know how well Tahitian, Fijian and Solomon Island club and national teams are supported.

As to the franchise model, we know that both Auckland teams are winter teams in disguise, fine for Auckland.  Waikato, Otago and Canterbury in my eyes only work as franchises as there just isn't a Central United equivalent in those areas (eg Melville or Ham. Wanderers fans would never support the other club).

In the case of Gisborne and maybe Palmy and Nelson, it would be based around the strongest club in the region which YHM was (Manuwatu United).

I think it would be fair to say the each part of NZ suits a different model, either due to low populations (Gisborne), largish populations (Dunedin, Hamilton and Tauranga) or large populations (Auckland) and trying to shoehorn them all into the same model just won't work.

what evidence is there that the health/success of the asbp will deliver improved football outcomes for all whites / nz youth?

Surely the strategy should be to get teens offshore early. Why do we pretend that playing domestic football (or even a league) will strengthen the all whites?

With current FIFA laws it limits the scope of countries (possibly only Australia - CER) where teens without nationality(or EU citizen) of that country can move to under the age of 18 for footballing purposes.

I do understand that, and that will limit choice/opportunities of those without ancestry. What I don't see is how the asbp is currently, or will ever be a pathway to improvement of the national team?

Those not able to get into overseas clubs at a younger age but still have potential or late bloomers, it offers the chance to test yourself against better opposition than you would with clubs over the winter. It also offers more games over the year for players. It may not produce our very best players but can and does/has produced players that can do a job for the AWs and provide a stepping stone to professional gigs.

My memory is a bit foggy but I think Manawatu United stopped existing around 2004, when they merged with Red Sox, and the new Manawatu United in the youth league is not in any way associated with Red Sox, but is just a rebranded YHM. And for most of YHM's existence I think Palmy Marist was actually the main contributor in terms of players, and the strongest club in the region (Chatham Cup final in 2005) Although my memory of those days in Palmy might not be the clearest...

But anyway, yeah, I think you can build a franchise around a club but it has to be done in a way that is still inclusive for all the other clubs in the catchment area. The more separate you can keep the club and the franchise, the better, I reckon 

the ACFC prize money does invite a debate about the ASBP and the future.

If you look at the NZF strategy in Beyond Football one of the aims is to increase the engagement and awareness of football in NZ. This should enhance the brand awareness and value so that more lucrative sponsorships are obtained.  The avenues for doing this are creating more profile and home matches for the All Whites, a second A League team, and a competitive and watched domestic competition (keeping it semi pro).

There is an argument that NZF should be working with ACFC to apply the prize money as seed funding for an A League team - it's always easier getting sponsorship if there is seed funding in place. Also, given NZF and other clubs prize money was a windfall it should be applied to improving the league through televising or streaming it not just invested in the same old things. They need to show the games and a magazine show that includes interviews with players in the ASB P, behind the scenes footage and also regular interviews and footage of the overseas players plying their trade overseas. This will enhance the average viewer engagement with the local league and also the All  Whites - as your average football follower doesn't waste their life on our forum. 

Mike Cockerills article also highlighted the role that the Oceania Confederation can play in this. I am not across their constitution but if able NZF and ACFC could work with OFC to secure funding for an A League license. OFC are also working on streaming matches etc and investing in the kit to do so.

So I think if  NZF and other stakeholders have the  balls to really execute Beyond Football and show it's more than words then conversations and, more importantly, commitments need to be made. Forget setting up one off matches between ACFC and the nix, the real way to gain momentum is to get Andy MartinGareth Morgan, Ivan V and the OFC round a table and put a plan in place. 

I think an Auckland A-League side is years off yet... 

personally I think there needs to be an Island team in the NZFC doing well before any move is made to there being an A-League one but yes Oceania, NZF etc do need to do more to engage the greater football following to push our domestic product ala what you've mentioned above.

Great article in Stuff from Tony Smith regarding the ASBF and what he thinks NZF should be doing

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/opinion/64469967/smit...

I am a bit of a Tony Smith fan and I think this is one of his better ones.   He is an "import" fan which will no doubt upset some.

Do you think he knows the % share was decided a long time ago

Import fan?

From Tony's article ....

"It's time for all other clubs to follow Auckland's lead by luring former pros from overseas to raise the standard of the league, excite the fan base and help ensure New Zealand's national champion can continue to compete with distinction in the Oceania Champions League competition and the Fifa Club World Cup finals."

the biggest issues in having 3 rounds in the ASB is the financial impact on the franchises. It cost approx $65 k to enter the current league so is that going to increase if we add another round . Going by the past, NZF would be asking the franchises to fund the additional round.

I'm making the assumption the provincial franchises such as Southern, Waibop will use the $100k from Auckland to pay off debt

The provincial franchises rely heavily on a few clubs to supply the majority of their players . If another round is added to the ASB then you will find a number of clubs will not allow their players to play in the ASB if there is an overlap between winter and summer competitions. The Auckland clubs have more player depth than Southern and Waibop. Waibop has basically 3 clubs to choose their players from. 

I'm not saying that is the right thing to do from the clubs but you have to be realistic. I can see the same happening in Manawatu , Nelson as well as Southern and Waibop

If NZF can create a clear window for all competitions then this issue may be resolved

Who are the 3 clubs you mention regarding WaiBop?  As a Ngaruawahia United Old Boy, I was very disappointed Irving went to ACFC and not WaiBop given we (Ngaruawahia) where the ones who introduced him to the NZ footie scene.

You can't blame him for wanting to win things though.

I think 3 rounds and not allowing players to play both might be the answer - there will be some grey areas obviously where some players who don't play much or are injured might be given allowances but the benefits should be this:

- Most of the best players will play be playing ASB

- Which means clubs in the NRFL (and other equivalents) will need to play the next tier of players which will hopefully include some younger players

- Which might allow you to scrap the national youth league or have it as a single round in the summer so it doesn't interfere with young kids who want to play ASB youth and top level club football as a stepping stone to Franchise football.

I'm sure there will be some issues but for me ASBP is the top level and local club football should be feeding ASBP not competing with it.

it's about money isn't it?  you would be living in a dream world otherwise? :-p

The three Waikato clubs are Wanderers, Melville and Ngaruawahia. Melville only have Aaron Scott playing summer league and Ngaruawahia have Drake. There are a few players from Tauranga but the majority are from Wanderers

You can't blame Irving for choosing Auckland over Waibop. It's a no brainer , I'm sure Ngaruawahia would have been compensated well.

I can't see how you can stop players playing winter and summer. There is nothing in the player regulations at the moment unless the franchises hold the players registration for 12 months . If NZF change this rule to do this , then I think you would see players in the smaller franchises opting to play winter 

any positive review of ASB would only work if the comp was handed over 51% Franchises 49% NZF - You would then see a huge change as they would not plan 1 yr out.

theoretically all you would need is enough quality players to committ to only ASBP - in fact ACFC could help in this regard because despite Buffy's insistence about money being the only motivating factor I think if enough players pulled out of regional football (i will use NRFL as the example) then the remaining players who are good enough to step up probably wouldn't want to play in a substandard comp - if they do then fine but they are not the players we need at ASBP level if they want to be a flat track bully.

If you use Central as an example - this would seriously deplete their NRFL squad if you removed the ASBP players so hopefully their solution would be to use ASBP youth players or young players from their academy - therefore giving young players the chance to enter the pathway.

I'm not sure you would need many more rules to make this happen - all you have to do is have the ASBP finishing after the transfer window closes and make sure transfers between ASBP and NRFL were not allowed during the closed period of the window.

Again I'm sure there are some holes but could be a relatively easy soultion - just have to find the money to finance three rounds as someone above pointed out.

Sorry but need to be 60% (12 teams) 40% NZF) and change in CWC $ split similarly 

Teams with the most money win things. Always have, always will.

I wonder if Nelson will get a more serious look now that they've won the youth league

i think you missed my reference - but i'm not surprised.

Sadly no.

Anyone else heard that ASB are reviewing all Football related sponsorship going forward.

Has NZF changed banks for the Football Foundation money (3mil) 

what are NZF planning now around sponsorship. All clubs that get sponsorship must pay NZF  a 10% cut