Things that make you go hmmmm

Here's an interesting opinion piece written by a woman in a management role, struggling to find her identity to some degree, and finding herself comparing herself to men, and the way she was bought up etc.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/104020694/im-ho...

I think that's a really good, honest article, where she explains how she feels about things, why she feels a little bit foreign in her current role and where that is coming from, and it also has a great ending about how she's going to empower herself and move forward from here. The anecdotal stuff about her childhood is really interesting too, the way males and females were expected to behave as children when she was young i.e. completely different expectations. 

I'm not sure what conclusions to make out of it, but just thought it was a really refreshing, honest, neutral piece, that stayed far away from the usual crap you get in these opinion pieces, where it's basically mud-slinging between s*xes. 

I particularly liked the sentence that had a reference link for every comment, very witty;

"Advice comes thick and fast: Be more like men. Be less like men. Be like men, but only sometimes. Be like men, but only if the moon is in Taurus and you saw a sparrow before 9am on Tuesday. But most importantly, never, ever be like men."

Frankie Rocks!

What passes for entertainment these days is bizarre

Hey don't speak about Trumpy and Kim like that :D

Holy shark I love Frankie MacDonald

IKR

I mean I knew ol' Frankie did weather forecast and stuff but had no idea he had branched out into eating mass quantities of food and being chased by aliens

Thankfully Frankie avoided being captured by the aliens. 

He is one guy I'd love to hang out with

Here's a very interesting interview:

People go on about "culture wars" even on here, you know right v left, liberal v conservative, one extreme v another.

But is this culture war being manipulated (and exaggerated) by the algorithms deliberately used in social media, systems that create and continually reinforce echo chambers where people get a sense that their way is the best and ONLY way and this is backed up by their social media feed?

I believe this to be the case.

Imo People have become more extreme and polarised in their views and this has become very noticeable since the introduction and widespread use of Social media and it is no accident.

Is it really any wonder that there is so much angst, disagreement, crankiness and polarity of views in society today when the majority of the population are being spoon-fed  their "news" and "views" in such a manipulative way? 

Everything you get in your social media feed will be deliberately placed according to algorithms created by what you have watched/liked already...creating a self-fulfilling loop reinforcing beliefs and perceptions of the world.

And on it goes. Its a sneaky way of manipulating people.

Can't watch the interview until later, but the majority of what you wrote there strikes a real chord with me, and is what I've been discussing with a few mates lately. 

I was telling them how I try very hard on twitter to follow a wide spectrum of opinion, but that it's actually really difficult. You find yourself naturally wanting to block/mute dissenting views, because they get you riled up, but at the same time you're battling hard not to do that, so that you can retain that broad world view, so you can try to think critically rather than tribally. 

I try to be equally critical of both sides of an argument, and it's funny what that does. For example I will tweet something critical of Trump and immediately find that a few people follow me. Then they will unfollow as soon as I tweet something critical of the DNC or Hillary Clinton. The way I behave does not lend itself to any kind of following, and yet that's what I find most of the stuff on twitter seems to be there for - people trying to build a following, to get those dopamine hits that the attention (and money) brings. You can't be unbiased, or a real critical thinker, most of the time, if you want to build a following. If notoriety is what you're after then you need to take an extreme position and stick to it no matter what, and then you will get others in the same tribe following you. This immediately turns me off people who behave this way, they just don't seem genuine.

One thing I wonder is if you're getting a little conspiracy theorist with that language though ChchR. Yes the algorithms are deliberate, but I don't think the intent is to divide the world and create problems. I honestly think the algorithms are written to show you more things that might be of your way of thinking, which then creates the echo chamber effect as a by-product. Obviously just as bad as we get the same outcome, but I don't really think there is malicious intent to create conflict. I do however think that the people running these things are politically motivated a lot of the time. The fact that Silicon Valley and Hollywood are so far left for the most part is a real issue. Their influence on the internet and media is massive, so to have such a biased and politically extreme group in the public eye all the time is quite dangerous in my opinion. For example, actual critical and logical thinking about Trump is basically non-existent, because of these groups screaming hysterically all the time, about every little thing, and trying to tie it back to Trump somehow. Most of the criticism I see on social media or coming out of Hollywood is pretty laughable crap, and could be applied to american politics or past governments, in general. These people started looking at politics 5 minutes ago and seem to think that every single bad thing in the world came out of Donald Trump's playbook. It's hilarious, but very sad at the same time. 

Oh I agree with you there and the guy in the video talks about this too. The algorithms are in place to make the product more appealing to people and thus more marketable. But as you point out the downside is that echo chambers are created as people are only getting fed the things that the algorithm predicts they are going to want to view.

And a consequence of this I believe people's outlooks are getting more extreme and less intolerant of other peoples views as the echo chamber effect takes hold and normalises a persons opinion no matter how outrageous it may be.

From veganism to zionism, right wing to left, and everything in between, these algorithms are bringing like minded people together, reinforcing each others views and thus normalising them.

I was just thinking further about my comments here yesterday, the bit in bold, and then the final paragraph about Hollywood and Silicon Valley.

Hollywood is basically a community of artists, and the thing these people have in common is that they aim to please, and they love attention. For most it's an ingrained part of their personality, and that's why they became actors etc. For others, creating was something they were good at and enjoyed, and they've now travelled down a career path of rejection after rejection after rejection, followed by a rare success which has propelled them to stardom and set them on their way. Both types of people have one thing in common. They're now basically conditioned for these dopamine hits. Getting attention, praise, and vast amounts of money is their fuel, it's what they live for. You do get your actors and artists that like to shy away from that, but they are rare - Hollywood is not the game if you're not into attention and fame. 

So that type of person naturally lends themselves to heavy social media use and a craving for followers, likes, RTs and just attention in general. Social media is a new and easy way to get those dopamine hits. 

Their general personality type also lends itself to being very far left on the political spectrum, and as a result they will often hold very idealistic, but unrealistic, world views. They aren't generally held to account on those views because they live in a city that is an enormous echo chamber. LA (and California) must be just about the least politically diverse place in the USA. 

So these people speak with authority, and a massive sense of entitlement, because they are living in a physical echo chamber, and operating online in a virtual echo chamber as well. 

And because the general public generally idolise and are in awe of these people, we listen, a lot. Even though they are largely uneducated in terms of science and politics, and don't have any experience in critical thinking. 

I am sick of them, to be honest, totally sick of them. There was a video from an awards ceremony last year, maybe the Oscars, can't remember, and a woman said something to the effect of "the people in this room are the only ones that seem to understand what it's like to live a life". She was crying when she said it, the crowd cheered, it went viral. WHAT A LOAD OF SH*T. These people have zero understanding of what it's like to live a life! Their lives are totally outside of the norm. 

Why are we listening to these people? They have literally nothing to offer us except a platform for a loud voice. And now we've discovered that their industry is totally corrupt, sexist, and that there's a culture of sexual abuse. We already knew that they suffer from very high rates of depression, mental illness, and that a hugely out-of-proportion percentage of them are on medication of some kind, prescribed or otherwise. This is a fake group of people, in a fake industry, and they are mentally troubled as a result. It's sad and they need help. They should be receiving advice, not giving it, and I'm sick of hearing their voices outside of the movie theatre. 

Quality rant 10\10.

Remember how the hollywood celebs were saying they would leave America if Trump won the election?

So how many left after Trumpy won? Hmmmmm.

And remember how hollywood was all over the "refugees welcome" thing. Crying injustice, pointing the finger and demanding people help. Well How many of these multi millionaires actually housed refugees in their huge (mainly empty) mansions? Hmmmmm.

They are all mouth and no trousers. Hollywood is one big degenerate, mutual back slapping, narcissistic, echo chamber. Fake and Horrid people imo

I only give it a 9 out of 10

There was no Trump bagging so It can't be considered a proper rant :D

Hey was just watching the news and Hillary Clinton is being all uppity and taking the moral high ground about kids being separated from their parents when entering the US illegally. As if she has a moral leg to stand on. 

That woman is such a cold blooded hypocrite: she doesn't care about anyone all she cares about is power and control. Complains about kids while desperately trying to cover up her own body count.

And people were astounded when Trump won. I was not. 

Time for a musical interlude 

Check this heavy metal out!

I said two years ago how much people despised tge Clinton's 

And the next debacle is Merkel in Germany. And Italy, Hungary etc.

Sanders was robbed

No, Sanders capitulated to Hilliary without putting up a fight.

It was obvious he had been shafted by her yet he just slunk away with his tail between his legs and barely a whimper so imo he has to take responsibility for his failure to call out Hilliary for the crook that she is.

All his supporters knew that clinton was doing the dirty on him and I am sure they would have rallied around Sanders, had he had the balls to call Clinton out, and then Sanders could have pushed on to make a decent challenge against Trump.

By not standing up for what was right and correct he proved himself to be yet another weak "leader" aka puppet, and he got his just desserts.

He had the chance to do the right thing and he blew it.

Venezuela.

People wanting to talk endlessly about how socialism has failed and no-one wants to talk about the fact that the US has been screwing over Venezuela for years with harsh sanctions and embargoes and also by funding groups to cause dissent within the country.

It is no accident that oil rich countries that oppose American Imperialism all get brought to their knees in the end. Look at Libya for starters.

Hmmmm.

Totally agree.

He was still robbed though, before any of that happened. I was very disappointed he then endorsed her, basically bending over and going with the "lesser of two evils" approach.

Although I think he even got that wrong, I would argue that Trump is the lesser of two evils!

Saw Clinton virtue-signalling all over twitter yesterday on the whole children separation thing, what an absolute joke, like she gives one single f*ck about those kids. Her and Comey are two people I just cannot stand, regardless of everything else. 

Hillary Clinton and her sex fiend husband exemplify everything that is so very wrong with the culture of American Politics. All Fake smiles and crocodile tears, using children as political pawns. How low can they go? 

Did you see the email in one of the wikileaks releases from Colin Powell on Hillary? Hilarious. 

"I would rather not have to vote for her, although she is a friend I respect," he writes in the email dated July 26, 2014. "A 70-year-old person with a long track record, unbridled ambition, greedy, not transformational, with a husband still dicking bimbos at home (according to the NYP)."

haha he nailed it.

That's her CV sorted 

No! Bill nailed it, that was his problem.

Here we have the latest example of how people, on all sides, are getting more emo, intolerant, close minded,aggressive and hypocritical:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/world/americas/donald-trum...

Ok so a Trump staff member decides to dine at a restaurant, someone in the staff notices and they don't like someone from Trumps regime being in their working proximity, so the Trump employee is made to leave the restaurant.

Next stage is a social media shark storm between supporters of both sides with everyone digging in for a long fight, no concessions.

So who wins? absolutely NO-ONE in my opinion: this isn't what winning looks like, no-one learned anything new from this experience and instead extreme views on both sides got consolidated even further. Opportunity for a chance to do something different shot down in flames.

What would a "winning" situation look like? For starters some DIALOGUE between the different parties rather than each simply attacking the other and then running away to hide in their echo chamber saying "I can't hear yooooo".

Both sides could have taken the time to listen to each others position and concerns and then discussed this further. A gay staff member worried about Trumps policies? Well here's a good chance to talk to them directly about your concerns but instead it is "get that person out of the building".

Why are people so afraid of taking the time to talk to and get to know a person whose ideas they don't like? Why do people have this need to shut opposing views down and/or banish them from their proximity?

The incident in the restaurant is interesting because the workers there and many of the customers all shared the same views ie it was a real life echo chamber...then someone with vastly different views stumbled unknowingly into the echo chamber and the echo chamber simply could not cope.

This my friends is why I only see things getting even more extreme and views even more polarised: intolerance is on the rise on both sides and meaningful, educational dialogue has been replaced by aggressive confrontations.

No-one wants to learn or try to understand anothers point of view...they just want to attack it and ultimately no one wins.

then they cry about how fudgeed up the world is, how mean people are to one another and on it goes. hello: time to look in the mirror rather than keep pointing the finger at everyone else me thinks,

Rather than an angry face and a "I'm not listening to you" attitude why not try do do something different and do it with a smile for starters. What is there to lose?

Or at least be honest and say your not interested in any real or meaningful discussion with people you disagree with and that you want them annihilated...because surely thats the end game for intolerance isn't it?

Love Trumps Hate apparently. Where's the love?

People huh.

Interesting to note too that the liberal community in the USA got all upset and offended when a shop refuses to serve a gay couple to the point that they took the shop to court but then next minute this very same liberal community is cheering from the rooftops when a restaurant refuses to serve someone who works for Trump.

These liberals have wittingly or unwittingly undermined their own position as well as making themselves look rather duplicitous at the same time

People seem to be incredilbley blind to their own bigotry or are Ok with having double standards.

Got to have some standards in your life sometimes Christchurch.

Or else you may be "grabbed by the pussy"

People like you seem to enjoy your standards so much that you insist on having double standards ;-)

Turning people away from businesses, judging them on race, religion or political standing is what America voted for - it should be the conservatives who realise this.

Yes I see your point: Obama was given much kudos for simply being brown. 

He won the Nobel Peace prize too...but what for? Most ever drone strikes sanctioned by any President? Or was it for deporting more illegal immigrants than all other presidents combined? Or could it have been for stirring up the racial pot in America? How many wars was Obama involved in again? And how did they all go?

Or was it just that he was a the first brown president that got him the prize?

hmmmmmm just saying!

This kind of thing happened before Trump was in office, it's nothing to do with his party policy. It's laughable that people keep thinking this way, as if all the ills of the world came into existence in 2016.

I think if you ask the average conservative voter, turning people away from their businesses would have had nothing to do with their vote, whatsoever. 

People don't choose to be gay, they just are. People choose their politics. If you choose to be an asshat in government, then that's on you. There's no weakening of position here like you claim.

Yes, sums it up. 

I shouldn't have to put out disclaimers but I seem to have to in the current environment. I'm not a fan of Trump, I'm not a "conservative". And I'm not a "liberal" or any kind of "leftie" either. I just look at the evidence and try my best to think critically and honestly. At voting time, I read actual policy, and vote for the party whose policies I agree with most - yes, it's odd isn't it, who would have thought you could vote that way! According to studies, only 6% of voters vote on policy alone. Hilarious. Anyway moving on... 

The tendency of people prescribing to Team Liberal, is to complain constantly about bigotry, inequality, abuse, etc, which is great, it's good to be against these things, and I am too. But as soon as one of these things happen to someone on the opposite team, they LOVE it. No compassion, they will mock, belittle and deride, and say that they basically deserve whatever they got coming to them. 

It is hypocritical no matter what they say to justify it, and it's just pathetic really. 

I notice even ACLU has joined a team now. Updated their policy to say that they no longer defend all free speech, they just defend the speech they agree with. 

The way of the world huh. 

But her being an "asshat in government" is a 100% subjective opinion.

Many conservatives would say she has been great. 

How can you pick and choose your restaurant clientele on subjective opinions like that? 

I think anyone turning people away from their restaurant for any reason other than them being a Twit in that restaurant, is stupid. They are the "asshats". 

Your argument simply does not make sense and instead shows evidence of the cognitive dissidence that seems so rife these days within the left/liberal scene.

On one hand liberals cry out for "equality", "inclusiveness" and "tolerance" next minute they are saying its OK to remove someone from your business if you don't like or agree with what they may or may not represent.

So do you want equality and tolerance or not? Seems like you want to have it only when it suits you.

Come on man, time you get honest with yourself, you're just as much a hater as the people your allege to be haters themselves.

All this further reinforces my earlier post that people simply are getting more and more extreme and intolerant and instead of being brought back to reality for having such extreme views they surround themselves with like minded folk who all think the same way and not only reinforce their position but normalise it within their group think.

Same here: Trump, Obama, Clinton, they are all the same to me: scheming, deceitful politicians. Bernie Sanders looked like he could bring something new to the table but Clinton made sure that was never going to happen, ironically allowing Trump a better chance of winning :)

I refuse to follow anyone's ideology, I am my own man and I make my mind up on where I stand issue by issue.  Some people can't handle that and insist on nice tidy labels and boxes for people, but for me that just reflects the thinking of a mind that cannot or will not engage in critical thinking.

This, a thousand times this. 

We need to think critically, and logically, not tribally. 

I'm pretty sure there are other forums where this discussion could go on.  I know it's in 'Off Topic' but it's not particularly relevant to Yellow Fever and quite frankly it's not a great advertisement for the Fever or some of the posters.

I'm not shutting it down but feel free to shift it to another platform like Stuff comments..

Thanks.

What are the invisible rules then? What topics are or aren't allowed in the "off topic" section?

Also care to expand on why this is not a great advertisement for Yellow Fever? I'd love to know exactly what comments or ideas fall into that category. 

Edit: that was an accidental "this". No idea how I managed that, but I certainly didn't mean it.