Things that make you go hmmmm

wish I had a green card. 

Whilst I have no love of war I actually think its great what the US do for their veterans...I think other countries should do more for those who have made, or are prepared to make the ultimate sacrifice.

The problem may be with the politics, the leadership etc... but it is not with the average soldier doing his job.

If you have experienced the real horror of war, stood behind coffins draped in flags of loved ones etc you may appreciate that offering a few discounts at Walmart is not glorfiying their fighting men.

On your next visit to the US, rather than posting comments on a forum, be brave & go along to a military funeral & tell the widow & their comrades how sickening you find them.

so you find Anzac day sickening ?

Or just anything American or British?

Anyone who glorifies their military for fudgeing up other countries solely for economic reasons needs their head read.

unfortunately there is a strong correlation between the two

And if you are talking about the USA of today then that doesn't wash with me

A few smart bombs and drones

Then if you are really after the economic rewards they put boots on the ground 

If you are  dumb enough to be those boots for an unjust cause then you don't get any sympathy in my view

What? I find it sickening how much they hold their military in esteem, where people wear fatigues and purchase assault rifles and play at being a militia, it's built into their psyche. That's nothing to do with looking after those who are injured or giving the family of the deceased respect. Your comment was overly emotive and completely pointless.

The US spends almost 4% of their GDP on their military yet in some states they can't afford to heat their schools in winter, they can't afford to open their schools five days a week, and their teachers are forced to moonlight as cleaners.

I actually found myself in an al quaeda dominated area right next to an active war zone once and it really was horrific. War is horrible and pointless and shouldn't be something which we hold in esteem.

Remember in the 90s when there were operation desert storm trading cards in packs of bubblegum? America Fudge Yeah!

Those rumble strips on the lines on the road.

War is horrible and pointless?

So when the Germans invaded Poland and the rest of Europe, was it pointless to fight back?

You should listen to that hardcore history podcast.

Of course it's pointless, it's pointless on all sides. That doesn't mean it's not necessary, but it shouldn't be something that's exalted, it should be something which happens reluctantly.

Arguments between people who don't listen to each other

Probably should be in things that piss you off thread.

There will always be wars as long as there are humans.

I hope you're wrong. We're tending towards less wars, and one day we'll have no nation vs nation wars, just small scale events.

We just need to out grow the concept of nations as we're slowly expanding the size of what we consider our tribe.

Very simplistic you are confusing shadowy governments with the courage of ordinary people.

I've no love for Churchill or the way America manipulated the Japanese but it's all very well being critical of those men and women who served in WW2. 

They didn't have a comfy access to the internet like we do. They were asked to do a job 

Yes they should be exalted - men and women willing to forgo their own personal safety to look after others. 

If you can't see that I dunno. You are mixing up personal bravery and decency with a shadowy world order that controls the masses.

Two very different things. 

I hope I am, but history says I'm not. 

The tribe thing is the key and that is not going to change anytime soon. 

It has been changing though, the tribes have been expanding.

I'm not talking about governments I'm talking about a culture that glorifies war.

I don't think so. I have lived in four countries and the ' tribe ' is still massive. 

I took out the rest of your post because it is irrelevant to the point I was posting about...

Your initial post as quoted made a link between:

Veterans support > discounts > glorify war > fighting men(women) > your being sickened.

In your latest post you say your being sickened is nothing to do with looking after those who are injured, giving respect .

Hmmmmmm..

Don't forget Ryan knows everything and has been everywhere. 

I see you commenting as well. Also, the comment isn't true, I didn't join in the conversation about Israel because I've never been there and know little about it.

I'm not your Bro - I'm sorry that what I was saying came across like that, because that's not what I meant. It's just insane that the military is held in higher regard than teachers for instance. And the culture as a whole glorifies war.

All change has a backlash, backlash just shows that change is happening. We used to live in little villages, then city states, then nations, pretty soon we'll have no borders.

If you talk to people you realise that we're all the same, interacting and communicating decreases borders.

If you think we have no borders, you are either stupid or very very naive. 

We are certainly not the same. 

Understood,thanks.

Now...in your world without borders. Does that mean you envisage no Nationalities, people are free to go wherever & whenever they want. 

What do think will happen with no border controls ? Do you just see everyone sitting around the camp fire giving group hugs whilst singing kumbaya.

Uncontrolled mass migration to some "better place" will not lead to some Utopian world....more likely a Mad Max world.

Please have a watch of this video made by Trevor Phillips, the former Chairman of the Equality and Human Rights Commission in the UK

I said "pretty soon we'll have no borders." The pretty soon part shows that I don't think we have no borders but at some point we will do.

You can see that borders have been crumbling and weakening for decades. You have super states like the US, the EU, the Russian Federation, even the UK, etc. Which are made up of dozens of different cultures and societies, and a trend towards a cohesive global vision.

A lot of water has to flow under the bridge before we can remove borders, but technology and automation will be the big leveler so I can see it happening at an accelerated rate as we have seen it happening. That doesn't mean we won't have regions and that people won't retain their own identity and culture, but that this outdated human construct of a nation and sovereignty will continue to slowly fade away.

Of course there are a brainwashed few, and the sooner we outgrow religion the better, but of course we're all the same. There is nothing biologically different about us, and there's lots of studies which show why some societies tend towards the evil while others tend towards the good. What I've seen that makes sense is that we're herd animals, and we in general tend towards what part of the society is in ascendance. 

Even then, there's a saying which I'm going to butcher which goes along the lines of: People are good, society is evil. The main way to understand each other is to live together and communicate.

As I say, watch the video.

We are talking m9re than a brainwashed few. 

Yes, which was my original point. Their politicians are not representing their constituents accurately, by voting in policy that I don't think they want.

They are voting in identities, not policies, and they don't really have much choice, considering the absolutely locked down two-party system that they have. For example the organisation that runs their debates at election time is 100% funded by the two establishment parties, so they have a rule that no other parties are allowed in the debate. 

People need to break the shackles and vote for someone else, but it's hard when these two parties appear to be the only real option. It feels like a wasted vote. It's not though. 

Interesting debate on war, and borders. I think Ryan makes some excellent points. 

And yes, war in general is declining, violent deaths in general are declining, violent crime is declining, poverty is declining, there are many positive things happening as the borders dissolve, despite the negative news spiral we are constantly in, and the serious problems with large scale immigration in countries like Germany and Sweden. We need to get that stuff right somehow, but closing borders and trying to go backwards is not the answer in my opinion. 

There is some backlash to the change with people voting for things like Trump, and Brexit, but as we've also seen, a lot of those things probably wouldn't have happened if it weren't for high level corruption and lies, like the Brexit campaign, the use of Cambridge Analytica and other shady data manipulation, and of course the frankly scandalous activity against Bernie Sanders within the DNC, which to me is the worst of them all, but has apparently been swept under the rug. 

So if someone set up a tent in your backyard and 10 people moved in. That is OK. After all if no borders is fine then this is acceptable.

LOL LOL

Yes that's obviously exactly what I meant. 

Sick burn bro. 

No. Rather, this is the dissonance that I was talking about earlier. The politicians who get elected aren't hiding their agendas, in fact they sell them very hard. And then they get voted in. The issue is that when people get polled on issues, they can think of 'do we need to spend/invest more in x/y/z' as a good idea - and when that is framed in a political agenda context, i.e. this will mean more taxes, cutting spending elsewhere, or borrowing more, the voting results, in the US at least, tend to be quite different to the poll results conducted on a more abstract level (especially when the weird ideological dimension is added). Although this is hardly an American phenomenon - there's plenty of people here who want the Government to spend sharkloads on new roads, and who in the same breath make jokes about Taxcinda, etc.

The US is extremely partisan at the moment. People will vote for their party no matter what because of one issue like guns, or foreigners, or abortion. They'll wear the fact that they'll lose health care because they want to protect the second amendment. 

That's why a proportional system is better and direct democracy is better still.

The voters are voting in identities, not policies. They aren't even bothering to read the policies. 

Yes blame lies with the voter on that, they need to educate themselves. 

But at the same time, in the US it would feel like you have no choice. 

Both major parties agree that military spending should greatly increase, that the government should have greater leeway to spy on their own citizens, and plenty of other things. 

I believe most americans don't want those things in reality. 

Last time I looked nationalism was on the rise globally....and partly as a reaction to illegal mass immigration. Most People don't like being invaded and who can blame them.

I don't want open borders, we have borders for a reason, the same reason I have a door on my house that a can close and lock when I have people trying to come in that I didn't invite. 

Sort your own country out first before running to another in the hope you will get a free ride...and if people try to immigrate illegally send them home, no if's no but's.

Where does you black and white view stand when the reason people aren't in their country is the fault of your country? 

Afghan refugees, Iraqi refugees, Syrian refugees, Palestinian refugees are not exactly the fault of their 'own country' but I can't imagine they are welcome in the countries who have fudgeed up their homes directly or indirectly.

Two guys go into Starbucks, don't buy anything but want to use the bathroom. The staff point out that Starbucks rules say you can only use bathroom if you make a purchase.

Staff ask guys if they are making a purchase...guys say no...staff ask guys to leave starbucks in accordance to starbucks policy.

Guys refuse to leave. Guys are told by staff they are trespassing. Guys still refuse to leave...so staff call Police and get them to handle situation.

Police turn up and politely ask the two guys to leave. The guys say they will not leave. Police tell them if they refuse to leave they will be arrested. Guys say they are no leaving so Police arrest them.

Seems reasonable to me: if you are asked to leave a business and refuse to then you can be trespassed. If you still refuse to leave the Police are within their powers to arrest you.

Whats the issue you wonder: all seems a logical process that occurs when people break the rules and get dealt with the consequences of their actions.

Ah well as soon as SJW's and BLM found out the 2 guys were black they shamelessly turned it into an issue about race and accuse Starbucks of being racist.

Welcome to 2018 where no-one wants to take responsibility for their own behaviour and instead want to play being the victim.

Guess what guys, if you had simply bought a coffee or just left the starbucks because you weren't buying then none of this would have happened!

Or is this a case of Brown Privilege ie the rules don't apply equally to everyone?

Hmmmmmmmmmm