Auckland City FC - Thanks a Trillion

 

i am new-ish on this site - no idea who blue magic is - and i don't care if the fans are a pack of whingers or not.  All i care about is that ACFC do almost nothing for the grassroots football in their area and if you can prove me wrong go ahead - i have stated this fact two or three times on here and no-one from the ACFC fans has tried to dispute it - just emphaise that the O-League is their priority etc etc.  I like games at Kiwitea street and I like games at FDP - and i agree that NZF could have booked a bigger more neutral venue, but these are the cards your dealt - like JV said if you wanted a home final - win more games. 

And yes if you lose i have no doubt you will whine about the venue...  or say it dosn't matter cus you will win the O-league and that's what matters..  either way i don't really care.

I don't think I would. If you finish first, you can play were you like. That's the perks of finishing first.

Blue Magic = Trueblue

I also want to throw out there, if we are going to talk about whats 'best for the ASB Premiership' and the future of our national league, lets start with player payments and the complete rort that has become (by all clubs)

The issue of Fred Taylor Park and the venue for the final has been a long going one. I raised it with a volatile Rex Dawkins and NZF myself two years ago when the same situation arose and the final was eventually held at Trusts Stadium and it was a big success. My issue is Fred Taylor, having no stand, doesn't give spectators a good view of the game. The best you can get a raised bank by the clubhouse or standing at ground level around the sides. Throw in a big crowd and you can be looking over other people's shoulders trying to get a glimpse of the action on field.

I once attended a game at Fred Taylor between Waitakere vs Bar in the O League and the mostly Fijian crowd of 3,000 odd mean't many spectators were struggling to watch the game being two or three deep around the perimeter of the ground. I heard frequent complaints from those struggling to see what was happening on the field. Frankly it was ridiulous. That game too should have been held at Trusts Stadium, which I also said to Rex and copped an earful of nasty abuse in return. 

This is not just about how it looks on TV. A game of this importance has to have a decent stand so spectators get a good view. This has nothing to do with my being a ACFC supporter so give that a rest - it has to do with my wanting NZ football to provide the facilities spectators deserve. That's why the final has been held at North Harbour and Trusts stadium in the past. If Kiwitea Street didn't have a stand I'd say the same thing if ACFC was hosting the final.

A legend in his own lunchtime!

At least, I have always stood by my words posted with my own name. I've never played the rant-and-hide game. You know who I am and I have the courage of my convictions.

I think if some of you didn't hide your real identities (JV for instance) you'd be less inclined to rant and possibly more thoughtful in your posts. I usually find those who hide their true identities tend to be pretty free with their bile.

A huge issue I grant you and one NZF simply ignores. The ASBP is an unfair playing field because some sides are better than others at raising money. I don't know the answer because the whole definition of an "amateur" side is so muddy. Even in the winter league big payments to players are thrown about.

It's no secret that ACFC is probably the best financed side in the ASBP followed by Waitakere and then Canterbury, who can invest in players. TW should be up there but it has sadly faded. That's the reason these sides have contested nearly all the grand finals. A lot of ACFC's success stems also from its success on field in the O League providing vital Fifa Club World Cup prizemoney both for the club and the ASBP as a whole. As I have stated before, take out that O League prize of $600,000 and I don't think the ASBP would be viable with some franchises even struggling to pay the $60,000 NZF entry fee. The season Waitakere failed to win the O League hit the ASBP hard - that's when Waitakere downsized from Trusts Stadium to Fred Taylor.

In truth the ASBP is a part-time league with some players paid near professional levels and many others getting little more than expenses. Until NZF pulls its finger out and makes a conscious effort to invest in its own national league it's always going to be an unfair competition with a huge gap between the successful franchises and the strugglers.

You are missing the point I was making. I wasn't taking a shot because you guys are ACFC supporters (and trust me, I have resisted damn hard and tried to make it all reasoned). I was saying that when you read the forums, no one has raised Fred Taylor as an issue at all this year despite the fact it was only really going to be 1 of 2 grounds to host the final and the same will occur next year. It's only really popped this week since Waitakere earned the right to a home final and you guys joined them this week. You may well have raised this issue before with Rex, NZF, whomever - good on you, but when it's only popped up this week, you tell me how it looks. This is why I stated my next point about 'let's take a real look at what's best for the comp'. Facilities would only be scratching the surface but if your interest is in 'whats best for the comp' as a whole then harping on about Fred Taylor in finals week does not give that outward appearance. If i could use a delicate example it's a similar scenario about some people who became campaigners for things like child cancer (as an example). They never gave a shit about about it until it affected their child so where was their support for that cause in all the years prior? It just makes the campaigning look self serving. This is not an accusation I am making at you but I am asking you to look at if from a 'how does it appear in the eyes of others' point if view. It just gives the appearance of whinging ACFC supporters.

I too was at the exact same Ba game and understand completely what you are talking about but no one came back here after the fact and banged on about how shit it was to watch the game... Can you see the point I am trying to make?

I completely agree with your opinion about facilities and the standards initially laid out being skirted but then that comes back to a wider ranging review which NZF will never do because the simple fact is, there is no money. It also comes back to the removal of Glyn Taylor (which I have been on about for a long while - see what I did there?) whom ran this comp like Novopay.

As for my opinions in person, they are exactly the same, but I'm just a has been now at my age and largely keep to myself at football games with a lot of watching. If I get engaged, it's the exact same POV in person.

I see NZF excell themselves again in their indifference to spectators by not only having the ASBP grand final at a ground with no covered stand - but also scheduling the Youth final between ACFC and Otago at the same ground, ummm, four hours before the ASBP final.

Why not have the youth final as the curtain raiser to the ASBP final? Anyone wanting to see both games has to put aside over six hours at a ground with the barest facilities, which of course few people will do.

I'm sorry, this is abject incompetence by the organizers. If it rains the whole thing will be a washout. It smacks of "lets not spend any money" which is NZF's mantra when it comes to the ASBP.

Now see on funding I have 2 points of view. 1 is that you guys set the competition standard so others should try to reach it and rightly so otherwise we are always championing mediocrity (I feel like Mark Watson, quick someone get me a man pill). The other is that (and let's not rehash) the millions from Trillian.

Your points are valid across the board. I have often wondered how the competition would look from the get go, if all the poke funding went into one pot with it spread evenly across the board. It would probably take the edge off ACFC and Waitakere but that extra money into Waikato, Manawatu and Otago I doubt would make a massive difference as their issues are one of a lack of player talent. Does money in that area all of a sudden make players become better? Not really.

I'm a big advocate of this being a totally amateur comp and also a reduction of overseas players (regardless of how it affects the on field product). If the Premiership is to be a path way, it has to be given more then just lip service.

I have long argued that Fred Taylor Park does not meet the requirements laid out for the ASBP, likewise the Miramar ground (as opposed to Newtown Park) and Waikato's downgrading, which are all just winter league club grounds. It has been a long running issue.

The issue has raised its ugly head JV because it's only recently that we know the finalists and the venue.

Imagine if the Phoenix downgraded to Newtown Park to save money. There would be massive howls of outrage on this forum.

It is unfair when some ASBP franchises go to great trouble to provide good facilities and others don't. Waitakere have plenty of funding, they just choose to spend it on players so they have a very strong team. Their facilities however, aren't worthy of their on field exploits. When they played at Trusts Stadium at least the spectators were well catered for.

 

The FFA wouldn't let it happen...

Imagine the number of parking tickets if they did.

Meanwhile I am still struggling to find coverage.  The ACFC 'goal' app is handy but a live stream video or radio would be great.

To be honest, I just assumed Waitakere would choose to host at Trust stadium.

I repeat - Waitak can host wherever they like.

I repeat - Fred Taylor, as a venue for the final will be shit...

.... For fans of ACFC or Waitakere... if they have any... I've never heard them.

 You'll hear them if they win.

I guess it's down to expectations.  The last two big AcFc Waitakere finals were held at the Trusts Stadium (Douglas Fields) 2009? 2011.

So when we got through I thought, fantastic, another great day out at the Trusts.  We meet up early for some nice home cooking,  a few drinks after lunch, then on with the show.

It's the only place where Waitakere whoop it up and make some noise.  The Waitakere  crowd wears loads of red and of course we are in blue.  The noise is non stop.  A proper derby.

The Fred is more of a pleasant afternoon at a barbecue (okay it's more  professional than that).  

A game at the Trusts is like tickets to an AC/DC concert, you yell and shout and can't hear for the next two days, but hell, you had a great time.  

So like the other times, I want the rock concert, the roller coaster and the big blast that our derby can be.

 Am coming up with Otago this weekend for our youth final.
Is the  Fred pitch a concern at all, or is it just atmosphere that will suffer a little compared to trusts?

probably no2 pitch ...facilities are shit.... ground should be ok

 

Fred Taylor is actually a reasonable pitch, they've solved the old problem of the rabbit holes it seems. The rest of the facilites are those of a winter league club with not protection from the elements and most spectators confined to standing around the perimeter.

I loved going to Otago on an away game with ACFC when we tried to liven up your impressive covered stadium. Your post-match hospitality was most appreciated. At least you guys make an effort to have good spectator facilities. Waitakere have spent all their money on players.

By the way the Sunday forcast is for rain in Auckland so bring your gumboots. If it does rain it's going to be a grand wash-out rather than a grand final. It'll look terrible if it's on TV.

I'm embarrassed as an Aucklander that through penny-pinching and incompetence by NZF the Otago Youth team are not being treated to a venue worthy of a showcase final. That the two games not being held at Trusts stadium or North Harbour or even Mt Smart #2 ground is a disgrace, and that the youth final between ACFC and Otago isn't on offer as a curtain raiser (not four hours before) just boggles the mind. Inept is the word that springs to mind.

NZ Football Does It Again

Not only do Otago have to bus to Queenstown then Fly To Auckland for the final , but  the clubrooms for the youth are being used for VIP's in the main game , so  there after match meal is being supplied in a take way box for them to eat outside , this is a disgrace , they will probably want them to pay to watch the main game as well

SPL

The scum have VIPs ...?? ....their lawyers and dealers I suppose .....

this is just astonishing!

This is an absolute insult, have Frank Van Hattam and the other NZF buffoons no shame? I'm embarrassed as an Aucklander.

You can bet your bottom dollar if this was being staged at Kiwitea Street the hospitality would be fantastic. Waitakere also need a kick up the backside for allowing this as well as they're effectively the hosts.

And according to the forcast it's going to be raining. Must keep the VIPs dry and let everyone else get soaked.

the whole differentiation of VIPs is quite amusing in so far as i thought there where only two types of NZ footy fans; those that turn up and those that don't.

it's amazing how these arse-clowns manage to find "status" in the most obscure of places

The troughs over there....

NZF allow WU to play the final in an open field to save money then turn over their modest clubhouse to said VIPs leaving everyone else to get wet. You can bet that if Van Hattam and co were flying from Otago for the game they wouldn't be forced to bus to Queenstown for a cheap flight. If it wasn't embarrassing it would be a joke.

Personally I hold Waitakere as responsible as NZF because as hosts they could choose the venue and Fred Taylor Park is way below even Youth League final status. I have a lot of respect for what Ian Marshall has done with WU but I hope ACFC trounce them in the final for this penny-pinching insult to what should be the showcase game of the season.

Having never been to either ground, and therefore know nothing about the facilities at either Kiwitea or Fred Taylor, I do question why Waitakere should be expected to voluntarily move away from the venue they have been playing their home games at all season, and effectively give up the home ground advantage they earned by finishing on top of the league.

Hmmm. Paul Marshall

Can I ask how you would feel if in a hypothetical situation that this was Waikato in the final hosted at Porritt?

And again its only popped as the topic du jour this week. Waitakere have lead the league from day one and its not like any other team outside of Auckland really is looking to host the final anytime soon (not trying to be too smug)

I do agree that Douglas Field would be a better option than Fred Taylor but being the home team, they don't have to give up their final on their ground.

No  probs with the scum playing at their home ground , they won its their right.... my problem is that theyve avoided conforming to the requirements of this comp since day 1 ....NZF to give them credit might have fallen for the ..." we'll be playing at a great ground which meets all your spefics really soon .."  for the first few years ,  but when they moved back to the Paddock , ill bet there was nary a peep....

not to worry  , its a pointless game , no TV , no real prize , at the end of a crappily run comp ...I doubt if even the incompetants who run this game can be bothered to show up ....

Sad bastard that I am , I will tho ...see you there fellas..not in the visitors zone tho...

Fred Taylor Park has been a long running issue for many years because of its lack of any spectator facilities. The fact that Waitakere has been allowed to flout ASBP requirements by not providing a covered stand has been raised numerous times over the years. Every time the final has been played there and not at Trusts stadium it has been a big issue. Believe me I've been on the receiving end of Rex Dawkins foul mouth for raising the issue to his face in the past.

It has only raised its ugly head again recently because, errrr, the decision to hold the final at Fred Taylor was only made recently. Who would have thought they would be such penny-pinching miserable sods to treat the showcase game of the season that way. I assumed the spectators were going to figure in the decision, and it would be held at a proper stadium but apparently not.

Sure WU won the right to stage the final, but they also are obliged to provide proper facilites and Fred Taylor is way below that. So either invest in a stand so spectators can see the game or hold it at Trusts Stadium which has a very good covered stand, and has held the final in the past when Waitakere was hosting and actually used to be Waitakere's home ground until they downgraded to their winter club ground so they could spend all their money on players. It's even close by so it still constitutes home advantage.

If TW won the right to host the final you'd expect them to have it at Newtown Park. Canterbury have excellent facilites at English Park and Hawke's Bay at Park Island. Even Otago uses an impressive covered stadium, not an open winter league club field. Even Porritt Stadium has a stand and so Waikato could at least provide the basics for spectators, not to mention a large bank on the other side. Fred Taylor Park, I know you hate to admit it JV, is just an open field with a slight bank under the clubhouse. There is absolutely no protection from the elements, so come the rain predicted for Sunday, I bet they'll be lucky to get 1000 there and most of them will be ACFC fans. The only plus is with a small crowd most of them will get some sort of view of the action on field.

^^ Fair points. Fred Taylor Park is a shithole. I can see that Watak don't want to give up their home advantage, just a shame that the final of our National League is going to take place at such an embarassing venue. Even more so if they have flouted the ASBP's own rules on stadium criteria.

Porritt is impressive compared with Fred Taylor Paddock.

The worst bit Jag is Trusts Stadium is just down the road in errrr, Waitakere, used to in fact be Waitakere's home ground, has an impressive 5,000 seat covered stand and has hosted great finals between WU and ACFC in the past when WU were the hosts. They wouldn't be giving up any home advantage, instead they would be acting like proper hosts.

This decision to hold it at Fred Taylor Paddock is just so they don't have to spend any money. That's why NZF equally need a kick up the bum. The final is surely one game when everyone can make a bit of an effort to turn on a spectacle. ACFC has always pulled out all the stops when they've hosted it at Kiwitea Street.

I just feel sorry for the Otago Youth squad and their supporters.

It's going to be equally embarrassing when Fred Taylor is used for the O League playoffs in May. The island teams play in proper football stadiums and then they come to Auckland and one of its sides plays in an open field. Makes us look like third world strugglers. Perhaps the Pacific island teams in the playoffs can be asked for a whip-around so Waitakere can erect a few seats for spectators.