As I said earlier in the thread, I have my doubts about how much more sustainable the new model will be, but guess there's only one way to find out.
comes down to the ability to monitor and prevent the backdoor payments...?
As I said earlier in the thread, I have my doubts about how much more sustainable the new model will be, but guess there's only one way to find out.
comes down to the ability to monitor and prevent the backdoor payments...?
From what I have been told it is a 2 round Mainland Premier League, (and I assume the same in the Southern Premier League). The top five MPL then play a one round comp with the top 3 SPL, with the top 2 teams of that going into the National League.
So what do you as a SIer think about that prospect? I understand that a SI League is prohibitively expensive for Nelson and Dunners, but is this a bit mickey-mouse?
My interpretation was that the $10,000 entry fee for ALL clubs effectively means the Auckland/Wellington clubs are subsidising the travel costs of the various regional clubs for the season.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/football/domestic/12...
"Pragnell said the existing clubs were split down the middle,”four-four” when it came to supporting the plans for change."
Pretty safe to say 3 of them are ES, AC and TW. 4th is either WU or HW.. Which really highlights the issue at hand. You've got 3/4 clubs that have decent financial banking. But the rest are being propped up by federation which are bleeding money.
it really seems to be a tradeoff between sustainability and quality. Not an easy answer.
As I said earlier in the thread, I have my doubts about how much more sustainable the new model will be, but guess there's only one way to find out.
comes down to the ability to monitor and prevent the backdoor payments...?
As I said earlier in the thread, I have my doubts about how much more sustainable the new model will be, but guess there's only one way to find out.
comes down to the ability to monitor and prevent the backdoor payments...?
Wouldn't that be a quasi-legitimization of (admittedly quite low) player payments?
Or would there be some convoluted way of classifying $250 p/w as a reimbursement?
Have you seen what Andrew Voerman recieved from one club handy prem side previously (by accident?)
Have you seen what Andrew Voerman recieved from one club previously (by accident?)
https://twitter.com/andrewvoerman/status/133147662...
Haha... classic. Obviously could be fake, but seems like a somewhat realistic spend for your average NRFL or central Prem side?
Although that's a lot of "housing required" for a regional side - so perhaps bottom tier of ISPS is more likely...?
"Work required: BS"?
Obviously that meant they had to find a BullShark job for someone.
From what I have been told it is a 2 round Mainland Premier League, (and I assume the same in the Southern Premier League). The top five MPL then play a one round comp with the top 3 SPL, with the top 2 teams of that going into the National League.
So what do you as a SIer think about that prospect? I understand that a SI League is prohibitively expensive for Nelson and Dunners, but is this a bit mickey-mouse?
My interpretation was that the $10,000 entry fee for ALL clubs effectively means the Auckland/Wellington clubs are subsidising the travel costs of the various regional clubs for the season.
It is not just the championship phase, it is the whole season. So the mid-to-bottom Auckland, Wellington, and Christchurch clubs are finding 10k to put into the kitty to subsidise the plane and bus travel for other teams to/from Dunedin, Nelson, Napier etc during the regional phase, as well as the championship phase.
Eventually those Auckland, Wellington, Christchurch clubs might realise they don't have the aspirations to go all out and go for the big prize and opt to play the next level down where they only have to worry about borrowing the local school minivans for their 2 trips out of town per season.
Any travel equalisation should be funded top down.
Can someone explain to me why the Phoenix get an automatic entry into this thing? If their youth development model with all their funding isn't enough to get one of the places in Central then I don't see why they get entry into the next phase automatically.
The press release talks about them being in there to 'fulfill their a-league license requirement'. I guess also they during the next phase they will have some A-league players to draw on? Whereas in winter they don't.
Is someone able to clarify that as fact or not?
Can someone explain to me why the Phoenix get an automatic entry into this thing? If their youth development model with all their funding isn't enough to get one of the places in Central then I don't see why they get entry into the next phase automatically.
The press release talks about them being in there to 'fulfill their a-league license requirement'. I guess also they during the next phase they will have some A-league players to draw on? Whereas in winter they don't.
Is someone able to clarify that as fact or not?
Isn't the idea that the squads remain unchanged from start to finish? So you wouldn't be able to bring in new players in the Championship round unless they played in the regional rounds first.
I just realised: this proposal means the Nix will outlive ACFC.
I remember the Knitting Circle chappies gloating about the imminent demise of the Nix, and how the Nix were parasites on "coalface Kiwi football" represented by ACFC - rather than a franchise backed up by pokies money - and I wonder what they're feeling now.
Can someone explain to me why the Phoenix get an automatic entry into this thing? If their youth development model with all their funding isn't enough to get one of the places in Central then I don't see why they get entry into the next phase automatically.
The press release talks about them being in there to 'fulfill their a-league license requirement'. I guess also they during the next phase they will have some A-league players to draw on? Whereas in winter they don't.
Is someone able to clarify that as fact or not?
Isn't the idea that the squads remain unchanged from start to finish? So you wouldn't be able to bring in new players in the Championship round unless they played in the regional rounds first.
I was referring to the fact (or not) they need it for their license.
Not sure what you mean? the Phoenix aren't in the regional round
So you make it to the Championship round and don't succeed. Then you start again at the same level as before. What is the point of paying 10k to get recognition that you can't hold on to. Isn't this like paying into an almost round robin Chatham Cup.
Can someone explain to me why the Phoenix get an automatic entry into this thing? If their youth development model with all their funding isn't enough to get one of the places in Central then I don't see why they get entry into the next phase automatically.
The press release talks about them being in there to 'fulfill their a-league license requirement'. I guess also they during the next phase they will have some A-league players to draw on? Whereas in winter they don't.
Is someone able to clarify that as fact or not?
Isn't the idea that the squads remain unchanged from start to finish? So you wouldn't be able to bring in new players in the Championship round unless they played in the regional rounds first.
I was referring to the fact (or not) they need it for their license.
Not sure what you mean? the Phoenix aren't in the regional round
So, they play as Lower Hutt in the Winter. What happens if they win the regional as Lower Hutt. Do the still get another automatic entry as The Phoenix to the next level. I see a lot of the players that played for Lower Hutt in the winter are now playing in their Phoenix team in the HANDA. Two teams would spread their players thin? Not probable, but a possibility!!
Can someone explain to me why the Phoenix get an automatic entry into this thing? If their youth development model with all their funding isn't enough to get one of the places in Central then I don't see why they get entry into the next phase automatically.
The press release talks about them being in there to 'fulfill their a-league license requirement'. I guess also they during the next phase they will have some A-league players to draw on? Whereas in winter they don't.
Is someone able to clarify that as fact or not?
Isn't the idea that the squads remain unchanged from start to finish? So you wouldn't be able to bring in new players in the Championship round unless they played in the regional rounds first.
I was referring to the fact (or not) they need it for their license.
Not sure what you mean? the Phoenix aren't in the regional round
So, they play as Lower Hutt in the Winter. What happens if they win the regional as Lower Hutt. Do the still get another automatic entry as The Phoenix to the next level. I see a lot of the players that played for Lower Hutt in the winter are now playing in their Phoenix team in the HANDA. Two teams would spread their players thin? Not probable, but a possibility!!
If Lower Hutt (or whoever the Phoenix have partnered with) finish in the top 3 of the Central Region conference they won't be allowed to qualify for the National Round as the Phoenix are there, so the 4th place team would get in
I just realised: this proposal means the Nix will outlive ACFC.
I remember the Knitting Circle chappies gloating about the imminent demise of the Nix, and how the Nix were parasites on "coalface Kiwi football" represented by ACFC - rather than a franchise backed up by pokies money - and I wonder what they're feeling now.
ACFC are a registered club affiliated to the Auckland FA so will continue, whether or not they decide to merge with Central United remains to be seen
Can someone explain to me why the Phoenix get an automatic entry into this thing? If their youth development model with all their funding isn't enough to get one of the places in Central then I don't see why they get entry into the next phase automatically.
The press release talks about them being in there to 'fulfill their a-league license requirement'. I guess also they during the next phase they will have some A-league players to draw on? Whereas in winter they don't.
Is someone able to clarify that as fact or not?
Isn't the idea that the squads remain unchanged from start to finish? So you wouldn't be able to bring in new players in the Championship round unless they played in the regional rounds first.
I was referring to the fact (or not) they need it for their license.
Not sure what you mean? the Phoenix aren't in the regional round
Misunderstood the question. Carry on.
I've been thinking about the conferences and they seem quite out of balance with each other especially in the South Conference with Mainland and Southern Leagues. That travel distance for a combined South Conference seems silly and I would've thought this would burn through more cash and time per team than say expanding both Southern and Mainland Leagues to 10 or 12 teams and giving them their own conferences each.
Two potential ways National Championship qualification could happen with seperate Mainland and Southland Conference.
1) Mainland Conference gets 1 and 0.5 qualifying spots and Southland Conference will get 0.5 qualifying spot. Southland Conference champ can playoff with the 2nd placed Mainland Conference for the 2nd South Island National Championship rep (If people think Southern League is that crap then why not?).
2) Mainland and Southland Conference each get 1 qualifying spot
I still think the representaion from the South Island is crap with only 2 spots, hopefully for next expansion or the rebirth of the summer National League they can get 3 teams again.
Can someone explain to me why the Phoenix get an automatic entry into this thing? If their youth development model with all their funding isn't enough to get one of the places in Central then I don't see why they get entry into the next phase automatically.
The press release talks about them being in there to 'fulfill their a-league license requirement'. I guess also they during the next phase they will have some A-league players to draw on? Whereas in winter they don't.
Is someone able to clarify that as fact or not?
Isn't the idea that the squads remain unchanged from start to finish? So you wouldn't be able to bring in new players in the Championship round unless they played in the regional rounds first.
I was referring to the fact (or not) they need it for their license.
Not sure what you mean? the Phoenix aren't in the regional round
So, they play as Lower Hutt in the Winter. What happens if they win the regional as Lower Hutt. Do the still get another automatic entry as The Phoenix to the next level. I see a lot of the players that played for Lower Hutt in the winter are now playing in their Phoenix team in the HANDA. Two teams would spread their players thin? Not probable, but a possibility!!
If Lower Hutt (or whoever the Phoenix have partnered with) finish in the top 3 of the Central Region conference they won't be allowed to qualify for the National Round as the Phoenix are there, so the 4th place team would get in
That’s in the Regs?
Can someone explain to me why the Phoenix get an automatic entry into this thing? If their youth development model with all their funding isn't enough to get one of the places in Central then I don't see why they get entry into the next phase automatically.
The press release talks about them being in there to 'fulfill their a-league license requirement'. I guess also they during the next phase they will have some A-league players to draw on? Whereas in winter they don't.
Is someone able to clarify that as fact or not?
Isn't the idea that the squads remain unchanged from start to finish? So you wouldn't be able to bring in new players in the Championship round unless they played in the regional rounds first.
I was referring to the fact (or not) they need it for their license.
Not sure what you mean? the Phoenix aren't in the regional round
So, they play as Lower Hutt in the Winter. What happens if they win the regional as Lower Hutt. Do the still get another automatic entry as The Phoenix to the next level. I see a lot of the players that played for Lower Hutt in the winter are now playing in their Phoenix team in the HANDA. Two teams would spread their players thin? Not probable, but a possibility!!
If Lower Hutt (or whoever the Phoenix have partnered with) finish in the top 3 of the Central Region conference they won't be allowed to qualify for the National Round as the Phoenix are there, so the 4th place team would get in
That’s in the Regs?
don't think the regs have been written yet, but it is in the memo to clubs from NZF
Can someone explain to me why the Phoenix get an automatic entry into this thing? If their youth development model with all their funding isn't enough to get one of the places in Central then I don't see why they get entry into the next phase automatically.
The press release talks about them being in there to 'fulfill their a-league license requirement'. I guess also they during the next phase they will have some A-league players to draw on? Whereas in winter they don't.
Is someone able to clarify that as fact or not?
Isn't the idea that the squads remain unchanged from start to finish? So you wouldn't be able to bring in new players in the Championship round unless they played in the regional rounds first.
I was referring to the fact (or not) they need it for their license.
Not sure what you mean? the Phoenix aren't in the regional round
So, they play as Lower Hutt in the Winter. What happens if they win the regional as Lower Hutt. Do the still get another automatic entry as The Phoenix to the next level. I see a lot of the players that played for Lower Hutt in the winter are now playing in their Phoenix team in the HANDA. Two teams would spread their players thin? Not probable, but a possibility!!
If Lower Hutt (or whoever the Phoenix have partnered with) finish in the top 3 of the Central Region conference they won't be allowed to qualify for the National Round as the Phoenix are there, so the 4th place team would get in
That’s in the Regs?
don't think the regs have been written yet, but it is in the memo to clubs from NZF
Ok gotcha - so they formalise the link to the affiliated club (Lower Hutt)
poor quality, lack of exposure and irrelevance
I am amazedballs that you are not intentionally describing the current NL, tbh.
I just don't see how splitting out players among more clubs strengthens it though.
What is the purpose of the NL? i don't believe we will have a pro league in NZ in my lifetime. Or probably my kids lifetime. If the strategic goal for NZ Football is game participation, and national team achievement, then don't we just want a NL that gets NZ eligible players into Pro Leagues?
Amateur league that encourages the playing of young 'uns seems like a good step. The tragics (I do include myself in this) will go anyway. Non-tragics aren't attracted by the current format.
And will unlikely be encouraged by the new one either. Possibly even less so.
It really seems to be common knowledge that EVERY change which is made to the NL, in whatever direction, makes it worse, less attractive, imminent death of football in NZ predicted, etc
Genuine question here; some people have been suggesting that the new format won't allow the best players to play in the Championship/NL phase.
Whilst FIFA etc say that amateur players cannot go out on loan, won't the system operate much as it does now- players signed for a particular period of time (till end of winter season), then moving to franchieses other clubs for the NL part of the season?
Maybe there is something obvious i don't understand about this - what prevents that in the new format?
The relevant section of the memo from NZF about the changes...
No club can play any player who is not registered by this point for either the conference or championship phase.
No loan agreements or transfer periods will be in place as these terms relate specifically to professional players.
Players may only be registered for three clubs and play for a maximum of two of these within a season as per the NZF Regulations on the Status of Transfer of Players.
It's important to think of the 'national league' as of 2021 as a competition that starts in March (or April) with the conference phase and somewhere between 30 and 39 teams spread across three conferences and culminates with a championship phase thats starts in September/October and consists of 10 teams.
It's all one thing, it's not 'winter leagues' and then the 'best teams from the winter leagues playing in a summer league'.
Genuine question here; some people have been suggesting that the new format won't allow the best players to play in the Championship/NL phase.
Whilst FIFA etc say that amateur players cannot go out on loan, won't the system operate much as it does now- players signed for a particular period of time (till end of winter season), then moving to franchieses other clubs for the NL part of the season?
Maybe there is something obvious i don't understand about this - what prevents that in the new format?
simple they'll move the transfer deadline to earlier in the season
I'm not worried about the talent thinning out particularly - There will be a period where this will be true but you would hope if clubs take this seriously as a long term project that exposure for more players to a level they have not played before will increase the overall level in time.
My concern is that this format (like any format) is shelved before any benefit is seen - I have concerns about the constant short term planning from both NZF and in our case NRF.
I could be wrong and this is the change that sticks - but history would suggest I have every right to be glass half full.
Tbf they stuck with the franchise format for 16 years, maybe they've learned the value of long-term planning and this one will stick for a decade too.
The relevant section of the memo from NZF about the changes...
[quote]To align the three respective conferences the NLS Regulations at Level One will stipulate that any player participating must be registered with their respective club by June 30.
Players may only be registered for three clubs and play for a maximum of two of these within a season as per the NZF Regulations on the Status of Transfer of Players.
Doesn't that suggest that players can play for multiple clubs in a season? What am i missing?
The relevant section of the memo from NZF about the changes...
[quote]To align the three respective conferences the NLS Regulations at Level One will stipulate that any player participating must be registered with their respective club by June 30.
Players may only be registered for three clubs and play for a maximum of two of these within a season as per the NZF Regulations on the Status of Transfer of Players.
Doesn't that suggest that players can play for multiple clubs in a season? What am i missing?
You can play for two clubs in the same season, but you can't register with a new club after June 30. Whatever club you are registered with as of June 30, you can only play for them from then until the end of the season.
It's pretty much the same regulation as the winter leagues all have now, it just brings the registration cutoffs into alignment. Players might jump from a team that doesn't look like it will qualify to one that looks like it will after the regional round is half-done, but the cutoff will be early enough that players won't be able play the whole regional round for one team and the national round for another.
Tbf they stuck with the franchise format for 16 years, maybe they've learned the value of long-term planning and this one will stick for a decade too.
*franchise format - with changes every couple of years, granted not massive changes but they flirted with a lot of big changes in that time as well, which is also unsettling. There has been franchises removed, clubs added and a host of other changes with format rules.
So what are we actually trying to achieve with the national league concept? If that is established, then we can build something that suits. I’d imagine that is what NZF probably did. So can we discuss what we think the NL should achieve? Myself I’m not sure. Is it as a pathway to pro football anywhere? To provide talent for our national teams to excel on the world stage such as qualify for and do well as world cup’s or simply just something entertaining for fans to watch?
Keeping an eye on player payments is an admirable goal, but reports are that a Central League club just tried to sign Tade for next year but couldn't afford the $60k plus he was demanding
Expect more of this to happen and more money to be thrown around than ever as clubs can now play the game of "mine is bigger than yours" as they strive to make the OFC Champions League and Club World Cup
So what are we actually trying to achieve with the national league concept? If that is established, then we can build something that suits. I’d imagine that is what NZF probably did. So can we discuss what we think the NL should achieve? Myself I’m not sure. Is it as a pathway to pro football anywhere? To provide talent for our national teams to excel on the world stage such as qualify for and do well as world cup’s or simply just something entertaining for fans to watch?
These questions are an indictment of NZF's messaging.
Keeping an eye on player payments is an admirable goal, but reports are that a Central League club just tried to sign Tade for next year but couldn't afford the $60k plus he was demanding
Expect more of this to happen and more money to be thrown around than ever as clubs can now play the game of "mine is bigger than yours" as they strive to make the OFC Champions League and Club World Cup
Where will clubs get sponsorship when no crowds attend?
What is going to happen to the semi/professional players? Will they leave the game/country as cannot afford to be amateur?
ACFC professionals will scatter to their winter clubs, Ole players will go back to Wellington.
Is the Div 2 going to be amateur? What will happen to Waiheke?
A team of young amateurs will not be strong enough to win the OFC Champions league and definitely not strong enough to play Club World Cup.
Where will the Handa Premiership coaches go with only half a years salary?
Wont the best school graduates look to the States for a degree and experience? Europe does not look like a good option except for a couple of outstanding players. Singh is struggling!
Keeping an eye on player payments is an admirable goal, but reports are that a Central League club just tried to sign Tade for next year but couldn't afford the $60k plus he was demanding
Expect more of this to happen and more money to be thrown around than ever as clubs can now play the game of "mine is bigger than yours" as they strive to make the OFC Champions League and Club World Cup
Keinzley back?
Keeping an eye on player payments is an admirable goal, but reports are that a Central League club just tried to sign Tade for next year but couldn't afford the $60k plus he was demanding
Expect more of this to happen and more money to be thrown around than ever as clubs can now play the game of "mine is bigger than yours" as they strive to make the OFC Champions League and Club World Cup
Keinzley back?